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Author | Topic: The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member
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For those interested, here are Trump's actual words:
So interesting to see ‘Progressive’ Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. First, those four women are American citizens, so they are part of "the people of the United States". Furthermore, they are expressing the opinions that are held by a large number - perhaps even a majority - of the people of the United States. Second, it is the right of the people of the United States, including these four particular people, to express their opinions on how the government is to be run. Finally, as members of the legislative branch, it is their duty to do what they can so that the government is run as much as possible in a manner consistent with the desires of the people who voted for them. In what conceivable way can anyone claim that telling these members of Congress to go back to where they came from is at all appropriate?It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman |
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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He's making a political point.... He told members of the legislative branch, whose job is to provide checks and balances to the executive branch, to go back to the countries they came from (which, by the way, happens to be the United States). What political point was he making?It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Isn't telling a US citizen to go back to the country they're from "anti-American"? I know if I were going to choose something to call "anti-American", that one would be a strong candidate.
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman |
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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They have been saying anti-American things, . . . Like what? "It's wrong to crowd people into standing-room-only cages."It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Wait, what?
I thought that that the reason people were put into concentration camps and locked in standing-room-only cages is because illegal entry into the US is a crime and law enforcement agencies have absolutely no choice but to detain them. Did the law change?
Added by edit: That was sarcasm is case someone missed it. Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I apologize if this isn't the right place for this, but nothing else seems to fit either, and I don't want to start a whole new thread on something that probably won't generate a bunch of discussion.
The Nation ran a profile on Ilhan Omar this week:
Why Ilhan Omar Is the Optimist in the Room I thought it was interesting since the usual media portrayals of the new leftist members of Congress seem to represent them as shrill extremist bomb throwers. This article presents another side to Omar's approach to politics. Warning to the rightwing: FAKE NEWS!Hard as it is to fathom, Mr President, just because you’re the leader of the free world doesn’t entitle you to a free pass. Unfortunately, just a free press. -- Neil Cavuto
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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I disagree that Biden is the most electable. Me, too, but mostly because I think it's foolish to think we can figure out who's most electable nine months before the election. What I worry about is left leaning Democrats second guessing themselves and worrying about who other people think is electable and so choosing an uninspiring candidate who ends up being the least electable. I've said this before: if Democratic voters just cast their vote for the candidate they truly believe would be the best choice for President, the system will choose the one who's most electable. 'Course, that's assuming the centrists don't give in to their blind panic and goose the system in favor of the uninspiring centrist candidate. Oklahoma allows independents to vote in the Democratic primaries. If Warren is still viable, I'll cast my vote for her (in fact, I donated a bit of money to her campaign last weekend), otherwise it looks like Sanders for me.The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard Feynman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Yeah, I was planning on voting for Warren, but now there's a good chance she won't make the threshold for getting any delegates here in OK, and so my vote might be wasted.
I'm also worried that if Sanders is going to be the candidate who represents the progressive left, then my vote going to Warren and then being wasted will end up helping sap the Left of crucial momentum and help Biden. I pretty much was hoping I wouldn't be put into a position where I'd have to decide to vote strategically. On the other hand, despite the misgivings I've expressed before, Sanders is a close second choice so I don't feel as if I'm choosing between the less of two evils.The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard Feynman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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What makes them think it will be different this time? If at first you don't succeed, keep trying the same thing forever.The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard Feynman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Myers' essay is pretty much what I've been trying to say. The Democratic Party is a broad coalition of different groups who can usually compromise with one another to formulate some common goals and then work together to achieve some of those goals. It's not a pretty process, and sometimes members of the coalition can have very different goals in mind which can lead to some dysfunction (and also some nakedly partisan power plays), but I've long felt that is pretty much what democracy is supposed to be.
Last Tuesday we saw that, as a matter of fact, Biden and the centrist still have a lot of support among many elements of the coalition. This is important if you believe that democracy means reaching a consensus position among many different elements. What I'm hoping now that the nomination is between two representatives of distinct approaches is that Biden will be forced to move left on some issues - like Clinton had to in 2016 - in order to broaden his support to secure the nomination. Some time ago I expressed my concerns whether Sanders has the ability to make the compromises necessary to achieve real policy goals. I'm hoping that Biden's strength will force Sanders to realize that he needs to show he can make the necessary compromises in order to appeal to a broad enough coalition to get the nomination. I may support Sanders right to the end, but I'll say now that if he can't show that he's willing to work with the people he disagrees with, then he probably won't get the nomination, he may not be as electable in November as he should be, and he definitely will have shown he won't be a particularly effective leader. Edited by Chiroptera, : Typo.The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard Feynman
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
From the Nation:
Is It Too Late for Bernie Sanders to Win Over Black Voters? This article doesn't seem to be behind a pay wall. If one has shown up, I apologize. Joan Walsh points out that Sanders is still having trouble connecting with black voters and the suburban women voters, and these groups were key to Biden's wins. She also points out a few of the mistakes that Sanders and his campaign made. One mistake is not recognizing, as I've tried pointing out, that the Democratic Party is a coalition of different voices and a candidate needs to try to appeal to as broad a coalition as possible.
It turns out that Democratic primary turnout has surged since 2016, but it’s mainly among moderates, like those white, college-educated suburban women, not the young people Sanders counted on. Those female voters, along with black voters, powered Biden’s overwhelming win in Virginia, where the state legislature has flipped blue, thanks to an increase in the number of women candidates and voters, as well as his surprise victory in Texas, where he carried the suburbs around Dallas and Houston that also went blue in 2018again on the strength of suburban women. Walsh also reminds us that there is a hard core of Bernie fanatics who attack anyone who disagrees with them rather than try to engage with any opposition. Sanders has been seen as not doing enough to disavow his deplorables (and, yes, I used that word on purpose). If anyone reads the article, I suggest reading the comments; you'll see the sort of thing Walsh is talking about.But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight |
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
...but in this discussion he's refusing to say he'll accept that the election wasn't rigged before he sees the results of the election. And this is the statement I've been waiting for. Everyone knows damn well that Trump is going to claim the election was rigged if he doesn't win. The cultists are already mentally preparing themselves to scream "fraud" if they don't like the results. If there's any fraud, I suspect it'll be in the red states, but even then there needs to be evidence besides "my side lost" to support such a claim.But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight
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