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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4812 of 5796 (871305)
01-31-2020 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4811 by Theodoric
01-31-2020 3:50 PM


Re: Tax cuts? Corporate investment? Not so much.
Canada sees the same.
quote:
A new CCPA study examines historical data on business investment and cash flow from 1961 through 2010, and, using econometric techniques, finds no evidence in the historical data that lower taxes have directly stimulated more investment.
Business fixed capital spending has declined notably as a share of GDP and as a share of corporate cash flow since the early 1980sdespite repeated tax cuts that have reduced the combined federal-provincial corporate tax rate from 50% to just 29.5% in 2010.
According to the study, by economist Jim Stanford, the Conservatives’ proposed 3-point reduction in corporate tax rates would cost the public purse $6 billion per year, yet only stimulate about $600 million of new business investment annually.
If the federal government spent $6 billion on public infrastructure instead of corporate tax cuts, the total increase in investment would be more than ten times as great as the increase in private investment from tax cuts alone. This includes the new public investment itself ($6 billion), as well as an additional $520 million in private business investment that would be stimulated through the positive spin-off effects of the resulting economic growth.
Corporate tax cuts don't stimulate investment | Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4811 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2020 3:50 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4813 of 5796 (871307)
01-31-2020 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 4809 by Faith
01-31-2020 3:06 PM


Re: Heritage Foundation Senior Analyst on the deficit and Natoinal Debt
Show us Faith. You make outlandish stupid claims, so show us you are right.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4809 by Faith, posted 01-31-2020 3:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4815 by Faith, posted 01-31-2020 4:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4819 of 5796 (871321)
01-31-2020 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 4815 by Faith
01-31-2020 4:12 PM


Re: Heritage Foundation Senior Analyst on the deficit and Natoinal Debt
That is all you have? He has been repeatedly shown to not be correct. Anyone that can actually read can see that he is wrong. Or more likely a liar. He is so wrong it is laughable. Actually it isn't laughable, because the rubes like you won't question what he says no matter how much evidence is presented to show he is wrong.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4815 by Faith, posted 01-31-2020 4:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4829 of 5796 (871337)
01-31-2020 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4828 by JonF
01-31-2020 8:45 PM


Re: Heritage Foundation Senior Analyst on the deficit and Natoinal Debt
We call that wingnut welfare. No expertise in economics at all. He just spouts the crap his audience wants to hear.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4828 by JonF, posted 01-31-2020 8:45 PM JonF has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 4841 of 5796 (871351)
02-01-2020 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 4831 by Hyroglyphx
01-31-2020 11:16 PM


Social Security was not meant to be a one stop retirement plan. It was to provide safety net.
Please provide the source showing it was originally an opt-in program. I had not heard that and can not find a source saying this.
I do know that originally vast numbers of workers were not included. Job categories that were not covered by the act included workers in agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers. This excluded most women and most minorities.
History of Social Security in the United States - Wikipedia
Edited by Theodoric, : fix sentence

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4831 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-31-2020 11:16 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 4855 of 5796 (871401)
02-02-2020 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4854 by AdminPhat
02-02-2020 8:21 AM


But Faith is allowed to continually spew mindless crap and lies
Would be nice if the mods would moderate Faith. How many lies, micharecterizations and attacks against "leftists" is she allowed before you have the balls to say something to her?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4854 by AdminPhat, posted 02-02-2020 8:21 AM AdminPhat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4863 of 5796 (871423)
02-02-2020 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4861 by Phat
02-02-2020 1:50 PM


Re: Moderator Interaction Concerning Faith
You don't know shit about her health or shit about her. She is a liar and a troll and you are an enabler. How about you moderate her posts a little bit like you moderate people that criticize her? Won't hold my fucking breath.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4861 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 1:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4872 of 5796 (871466)
02-03-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4869 by Percy
02-03-2020 1:31 PM


Re: CBO Proejcts Trump Trillion Dollar Deficits to Continue Indefinitely
but in any case, about tax rates on the rich during the 1950's and 1960's, I don't see how that relates to corporate tax rates.
Well, like individual tax rates, corporate tax rates were higher in the 50's and 60's. The statutory corporate tax rate was higher than 50% in the 50's.
Seemingly you are not able to grasp the concept between high individual compensation, individual tax rates and corporate tax rates.
All numbers I am using are for example and do not reflect real world tax rates. The concept remains the same.
If the individual marginal tax rate maxes out at 33% for income over 10 million, companies will continue to pay CEO's and other execs exorbitant amounts of money, which is a redistribution of wealth to the top. If income over 10 million is taxed at a substantially higher rate, corporations will be less likely to pay them this exorbitant amount because such a high percentage of it will go toward taxes. Instead of paying it to a few individuals they should be incentivized to spread it around or invest in capital projects. Reinvest in the company(not stock buybacks). If their corporate tax rate is higher they are going to be incentivized to get that profit off the books by spending the money. The economy works by money moving around, not by the wealthy and corporations hoarding it.
Lower taxes on the very wealthy and corporations incentivize exorbitant pay to execs and stock manipulation. They do not create the number of jobs needed to offset the hit to tax revenue. Economic growth and tax revenues are helped more by higher taxes than lower. Of course there is a point where taxes can get too high and hinder economic growth. As we are at all time lows, I do not think we are anywhere near having that problem.
Corporate tax rates and economic growth since 1947 | Economic Policy Institute
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4869 by Percy, posted 02-03-2020 1:31 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4873 by Diomedes, posted 02-03-2020 2:23 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 4897 by Percy, posted 02-05-2020 7:15 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4876 of 5796 (871471)
02-03-2020 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4873 by Diomedes
02-03-2020 2:23 PM


Re: CBO Proejcts Trump Trillion Dollar Deficits to Continue Indefinitely
The giving of stock is taxable. Usually they are given stock options. Then the difference between the option price and the sold price is taxable. The giving of stock does not circumvent taxable income.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4873 by Diomedes, posted 02-03-2020 2:23 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4890 of 5796 (871517)
02-04-2020 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4889 by Faith
02-04-2020 2:51 PM


Re: Moderator Interaction Concerning Faith
We should start a pool on how long until she comes back.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4889 by Faith, posted 02-04-2020 2:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4894 of 5796 (871533)
02-04-2020 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4893 by Percy
02-04-2020 6:51 PM


Re: Heritage Foundation Senior Analyst on the deficit and Natoinal Debt
Haven't run the figures but I think we can just raise the limit. Maybe double or triple.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4893 by Percy, posted 02-04-2020 6:51 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4901 of 5796 (871543)
02-05-2020 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 4897 by Percy
02-05-2020 7:15 AM


Re: CBO Proejcts Trump Trillion Dollar Deficits to Continue Indefinitely
Are you not the person that said?
I don't see how that relates to corporate tax rates.
You still seem unable to grasp the concept.
Or they find non-taxable or lower taxable means of executive compensation, just like they did in the 1950's.
Interestingly executive compensation was not rampantly out of control in the 1950's. So I do no think this is a very valid argument.
quote:
The ratio of CEO-to-worker pay has increased 1,000 percent since 1950, according to data from Bloomberg. Today Fortune 500 CEOs make 204 times regular workers on average, Bloomberg found. The ratio is up from 120-to-1 in 2000, 42-to-1 in 1980 and 20-to-1 in 1950.
CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratio Ballooned 1,000 Percent Since 1950: Report | HuffPost Impact
Ratio of average compensation of CEOs and production workers, 1965—2009. Source: Economic Policy Institute. 2011. Based on data from Wall Street Journal/Mercer, Hay Group 2010.
Now, same situation except that there's a higher corporate tax rate and their taxes will be $50 million instead of just $20 million. How does that change the equation on purchasing that business?
Unrealistic scenario. Companies do not buy other companies with cash. They finance them. Also, if this scenario was realistic it would fit into basic economics and taxes as I proposed. Buying the other company would reduce their tax burden because they spent the money to buy another company. Thus their taxable income is reduced because they spent the money to buy a new company instead of spending the money on taxes.
You seem to be missing the point that their tax burden is reduced because they would have bought that other company, built a new plant, rewarded their employees, paid out that dividend. Instead of giving their CEO an extra 50 million or spent 100 million to buy back stock to increase "share holder value". The higher tax burden increases the likelihood of all the things you mentioned happening. The lower taxes are preventing those things from happening because the money can be used for excessive executive compensation and stock buy backs, things that do not help the long term health of the corporation or the well being of workers.
You seem to be missing the basic premise of my point.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4897 by Percy, posted 02-05-2020 7:15 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4906 by Percy, posted 02-05-2020 12:59 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4910 of 5796 (871564)
02-05-2020 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4906 by Percy
02-05-2020 12:59 PM


Re: CBO Proejcts Trump Trillion Dollar Deficits to Continue Indefinitely
I tried multiple times to explain in a way that was straightforward and I thought reasonable. I am not sure where the disconnect is. Your previous post showed a complete lack of understanding of my argument.
I am unsure how to explain the economics in a way you an understand.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4906 by Percy, posted 02-05-2020 12:59 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4916 by Percy, posted 02-06-2020 7:37 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4911 of 5796 (871565)
02-05-2020 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4907 by Percy
02-05-2020 1:04 PM


Re: Heritage Foundation Senior Analyst on the deficit and Natoinal Debt
Because it's name shows it's purpose. Social Security not Individual Security. The wealthy are much more able and have much more opportunity to invest for retirement. Options and abilities that the vast majority of US citizens do not. Thus, Social Security, not Individual Security.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4907 by Percy, posted 02-05-2020 1:04 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4918 of 5796 (871593)
02-06-2020 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4916 by Percy
02-06-2020 7:37 AM


Re: CBO Proejcts Trump Trillion Dollar Deficits to Continue Indefinitely
I'm a fiscal conservative,
Doesn't explain why you are unable to understand the concept that lower taxes do not promote corporate reinvestment, while in fact they tend to promote less corporate investment. Actually, higher taxes on corporations and individuals promote corporate reinvestment in order to keep excess profits from being payed in taxes. This is born out by looking at historical tax levels and comparing them to growth in the post war years and comparing the same to the post Reagan years. Your posts have shown a total lack of understanding of the basic concept. It is not just that you don't agree, but your posts show that you don't even understand the concept of what I have stated, yes, multiple times.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4916 by Percy, posted 02-06-2020 7:37 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4920 by Percy, posted 02-06-2020 8:48 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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