Charismatic Chaos

OK Let me ask you a hypothetical question. What would Jesus think? What about the nationalists and America might Jesus like? What about Communism and cultural marxism might Jesus hate?

I dont see the known origins of Christianity inclusive of any cult leader. Some critics accuse Jesus or Saul of Tarsus as being such a figure, but I dismiss those assertions.Granted Christianity became a political tool of Western Expansionism and Manifest Destiny...a practice that became virtually institutionalized within Western Governments until recently. Christian Nationalism is in no way justifiable through the teaching of Jesus Christ nor the Apostle Paul.I do believe that We Become The Decisions We Make and that far too many people follow the teachings of their Pastors without even reading the news or listening directly to what the "other side" says and believes rather than concluding (perhaps through conservative radio) what the situation is and what the actual ideological conflicts are all about. I recall that jar used to always say to me "Phat, have you been listening to Christian radio again"? While it certainly did not stop me from listening to what I enjoyed, it *did* give me an admonition to listen to whatever the opposing social views were that the Christian Radio somehow triggered.I hear a lot of views that challenge and oppose what I believe. I watched you as you used to struggle to argue to defend your beliefs and finally ditched them all together, just as jar urges me to do. Though I listen to Right Wing ideology and social commentary, I also listen to what faith would call Cultural Marxism. In fact, lets google that term before w go any further:
CULTURAL MARXISM' CATCHING ON This article is by the SPLC. Dare i say that many conservatives of whom it targets wouldn't even read what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say, instead branding that very organization itself as "leftist" and biased?Ive also listened to the Christian Mythicists. Though scholarly, I feel that they dont know any more than the rest of us do concerning jesus christ and that it was meant that belief would be the only thing that Christians could realistically hold on to in the "Final Days". And let's discuss that whole concept also!Nowadays, I don't see global society as in the "Last Days" simply because of what apologists claim the bible says. I see evidence that huge global conflicts are inevitable and will usher in an age that will test the faith of the most diehard believers. Tangle claims that I (and the rest of the "nutters") are far too negative and insane in our thinking and that optimism coupled with reality will carry us past these global challenges. To be honest, it would be simply wonderful if he were correct. Only time will tell.

She won't watch those. I did, and as I analyzed my initial gut reactions, I realized how institutionalized racism is in my own life....something I never would have thought I could be. It's a brave new world....there is no nostalgic past. Thanks for sharing.

Your personal experience is noted.As long as we are all ranting, let me just for the record state that I don't see Faith, Belief, or Politics as strictly black and white issues. Perhaps I still believe that Good and Evil are this way, but I am also learning that being stubborn enough to never address your opponents and bother to understand their argument is insulting. When you ignore me or someone who takes the time to attempt a debate with you, you are being dismissive and acting as if you and only you have the truth and critics be damned. Perhaps being inactive is good for you. EvC has allowed you to be the number one poster numerically and yet you get on my case for not hearing the "other" side when you yourself completely ignore the other side. Just my observation. And yes, the reason I made it publically is because I wanted to show support for your adversaries as well as talking honestly to you.Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

I will respond to this. I think I am beginning to understand all of this a bit better. Nobody suggested that i should necessarily feel guilty (which I don't so much) for the sins of my ancestors. The keyword that we are looking for is awareness. Nobody can make me feel like crap unless they bully me regarding my entitlement and privilege issues yet I think that sometimes I go looking for a "fight" just to feel better about myself. Quite frankly I also think that some of us need to be confronted about our unconscious attitudes and challenged. Call it tough love.Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

I dont know if this is implicit prejudice or not, but it has been my rather limited experience that most atheists are white. That's my bias anyway.Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

mmmmm not sure I agree. But I think its a rabbit trail off of Charismatic behavior in general anyway. Not that we have ever really been on topic.

I was curious about what percentage of younger self-proclaimed atheists are influenced much by Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennet, and Harris? Many of the same arguments used by these and a few other atheist activists resurface whenever confronting a younger, educated person. I have noted, however, that they are not so much anti-Christian as they are simply "irrelevant Christian" focused. And I have found that many were onetime Catholics (the religion and culture of their parents) since abandoned and that few of them think they need to meet Jesus. Which is ok, I suppose for now...but I think everyone will meet him at some point.

Because they (at least Hyro and probably Faith) don't see you as addressing the artificial construct. They see you as addressing Whiteness as a problem rather than a generational privilege as the problem. I know that you are not addressing whiteness. You are addressing the unawareness of the privilege itself.Many white people get defensive because they suddenly feel singled out yet also singled out as a group, not understanding the problem that led to this necessity.When Trump used to address his base, he told them that they need not feel forgotten anymore. he likely understood that poorer white people feel it coming from both sides---the powerful group at the top of the economic spectrum, the pressure to belong to (and thus benefit) from this groups power, and the pressure from the rising masses globally who are no longer going to take getting exploited. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Seeing as how this topic is in Charismatic chaos, allow me to frame these issues back towards the actual topic.

When Christianity allegedly began, it was due to one Rabbi standing up against a religious system yet speaking of a Bigger Picture. A Minority (of one) speaking to a minority belief(The Jews) about changing their behavior. This man was killed. Reports that he had risen from the dead followed.

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Saul of Tarsus, a Roman citizen from the Majority power culture at that time, brought the religion into the mainstream. The message was still in the context of a minority religion struggling for identity.

Constantine adopted Christianity as the official state religion of the Roman Empire. The religion thus mutated into a majority nationalistic belief. I need to read more of the history so as to solidify my point. namely that Christianity was never meant to be about the many powerful people getting a political boost from God. It was always about the few. The powerless.

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I predict that it will again become the religion of the poor.

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Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

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The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

You must surely be the worlds biggest skeptic. I suppose you think that not only was jesus made up but the very character of the people of the Way. Of course our evidence can only be from written writings as well as perhaps some indicators from Archeological digs, though as a group, the early Christians were rather poor. no buried Mercedes or Airplanes to testify of their presence.And I suppose you can and do argue that any group of people can be loving and selfless. I still think you miss the additional spark that some people have. yes, I am claiming that being a true Christian involves an inner awakening, but of course, this could just be my understanding. I will dig for more evidenceOf course, we have These if we dare trust that they are not yet another scam. I am skeptical, but not cynical. I think that God exists and actually does touch His annointed. .

Lets drop the whole Martyr schtick. I perused the website and was unimpressed. Fine. Great, even! Let's continue to do them. Being a believer is about more than doing chores and following the message, however. yes, this is what you and ringo continually emphasize. Christians have a charge and a duty. I like people. I like to talk with them and share stories. I like to give them food, clothes, and encouragement. God knows I've been trying! Arrrrrggggghhh! The bigger concept is not simply about the zen of cheerfully doing chores. It would be nice to meet God someday. If you inherited a church, would you market anything more than doing chores? Would Your Sign Say: The Church Of The Risen Ego?(Since you threw God away) You always ask how a relationship with Jesus is even possible. Why do you think they initially made a Book of Common Prayer? Were they simply talking to themselves?Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

I take it you don't listen to mainstream news then?

I don't attend church on a regular basis. I have honestly never been able to fully embrace commonality or find enduring friendships in the church. Nevertheless, I do believe that corporate worship--prayer with a group of people--unites us if but for that moment. So as to how the two greatest commandments play out in organized religion, the 2nd part of the greatest commandment plays out in corporate worship and prayer. And what still bothers me is your idea that the lessons can have value even if not literally coming from God.So right now, two questions are stuck in my mind regarding what you say.
1) Why do you feel it is productive, necessary, and dare I say even possible to "Throw God Away?"2) The fact that nobody has ever been able to explain to you what a relationship with Jesus even is or how it is possible baffles and challenges me. You showed how you became a believer. Why would you even think such a thing?

yeah...believers in Trump. The evangelical community even gathered around him and laid hands on him once or twice. His behavior shows no evidenc of the Holy Spirit, but then neither does mine sometimes. To me, the evidence overall shows that people are capable of either extreme empathy or extreme selfishness and are basically just human.At church, however, I have seen evidence of radical transformations, but the change never lasts without being fed. Perhaps that is what you mean by "throwing away"...letting go of the scripted dogma and behavior that one is expected to follow and allowing nature to take its course. Some would call it deconversion, but I will be positive enough to say that it is more of a re-conversion back towards reality and out of the cultic mentality. (At the risk of ire from Believers) I will stand on the assertion that the bigger concept is a day to day relationship with GOD through Jesus.And here we are again.

What Does That Even Mean? How Is It Possible?

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In order to attempt to answer that, I find myself running into your accusations that I create the God I worship and/or expect.

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If I threw away the belief that Jesus is alive and is knowable, I would be leaving myself hopeless and defenseless. Plus the fact that He may not like such a decision.

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The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide