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Author Topic:   Windows 10
dwise1
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Posts: 4194
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 31 of 43 (865887)
11-01-2019 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Percy
11-01-2019 6:18 PM


I also loved XP, once I got rid of their ******* Fisher-Price UI -- I went immediately to "Windows Classic", putting everything inside a gray box.

As opposed to the earlier versions, everything was open and open to being resolved.

Any networking issue, I could deal with directly in XP. Now I have to ask some "troubleshooter" who grinds and grinds away and accomplishes absolutely nothing besides wasting all our time.


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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 32 of 43 (865888)
11-01-2019 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by dwise1
11-01-2019 7:02 PM


Any networking issue I can take care of on my own. I run the troubleshooter some times and moat of the time it resolves the issue. If it doesn't I use all the old tools and resolve it. All of the old stuff is still there. What did you used to do that you can't on Win 10? Do you still wish we had to deal with irq's and dip switches too?

As for interfaces, the XP interface was great for it's time. It is unworkable for touch and is in fact too dated for todays computers.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by dwise1, posted 11-01-2019 7:02 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4194
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 33 of 43 (865935)
11-02-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Theodoric
11-01-2019 7:37 PM


Any networking issue I can take care of on my own. I run the troubleshooter some times and moat of the time it resolves the issue.

Most of my networking setup and troubleshooting tasks were at work (software engineer, now retired). XP worked like a charm and let me examine and modify settings at almost all levels and let me observe how the connections were working including showing in real time the counts of packets sent and received. I haven't found anything close to that on 10 nor 7.

We didn't work with WiFi at work, but I use it at home. Most of my networking problems at home are either with the WiFi connection between the computer and router or between the router and the cable modem. The solution ends up being to cycle power on both the router and modem, usually once but sometimes it takes a second or third time, and then after giving it enough time repeatedly pinging yahoo.

When I bought this computer it ran Win7 which was the current version at the time and then when Win10 rolled out it automatically installed into my computer (with my permission). I've had to deal with that troubleshooter ever since I first got this computer. In all those years, I cannot recall a single instance of the troubleshooter ever actually figuring out the problem, let alone fixing it. Maybe there was one or two anomalous successes, but not that I can remember.

If it doesn't I use all the old tools and resolve it. All of the old stuff is still there.

One of the big problems with my Win10 is that it's a 64-bit system, so my old tools, which are 16-bit, no longer work. That includes my DOS ports of Linux utilities.

What did you used to do that you can't on Win 10?

Do a proper file search in the file manager, Windows Explorer. In XP and before, I could set up the search parameters based on name or content (and I could specify which!), date ranges of creation or modification, location and whether to search sub-directories, etc. And then it actually worked! For example, I have a couple decades of text file captures from CompuServe and my emails and I have used XP's search utility to find just about any past discussion I had had (very valuable when dealing with creationists). Now I can no longer do that.

Starting with Win7, that search utility lost nearly all utility. I had to park Windows Explorer in the directory in question and could only enter a search string. There was no way to specify filename or contents, so it would allegedly search for both. And more often than not it never found the file. Even when I could see that that file was right there in the directory I was searching, a search on that explicit filename, the complete filename, would result in "file not found", even when I copy-and-pasted that filename into the search box.

A basic utility is disabled and that's supposed to be an improvement? I ended up using grep from the command line, but even that was taken away when the OS went 64-bit. Searching through Help, I found that it was supposed to support a command scripting language to regain the lost ability to specify searches, but it was not described anywhere in Help or online that I was ever able to find. Now it looks like Win10 is trying to restore the old XP capabilities, but I haven't had any luck with it so far and frankly I'm very skeptical about it.

Another example is that the XP-and-before search feature saved my sanity so many times in trying to deal with my ex-wife (not yet ex at the time). She wanted to use Word but absolutely refused to learn the most basic concepts like naming your document file and saving it into a directory. She would create a document leaving everything defaulted and then a week later vilifying me because my computer had lost her document. My first questions to her would be where she saved it ("I don't know!") and what she named it ("I don't know!"). At least she knew when she had last modified it so I was able to do a search and find the most likely candidate. I never could have done that with the new search "feature" inflicted upon us starting with Win7.

It is unworkable for touch and is in fact too dated for todays computers.

Who cares about touch? I have a new beater laptop that supports touch and I never use it. It can go into tablet mode which I've tried, but it's absolutely useless in that mode. I thought that it could be used to get some work done in that mode while on a flight where you cannot unfold the laptop, but when I tried that I couldn't do anything. I use it mainly for writing and there is no way I could get to my text editor in tablet mode nor could I use it in tablet mode. Tablet mode is completely useless.


This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2378
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 34 of 43 (866857)
11-16-2019 5:34 PM


Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
I have been prepping for this upgrade from Windows 7 64 Pro for the past couple of weeks. The computer is my workhorse that is used primarily to control my imaging system and process and store the images.

There are 5 hard drives that can be powered on/off independently and all the image and data files are stored on the non-system drives. I have cloned the C drive on a second 1TB SSD drive and I also have backup copies of all Program files and Doc & Settings Files.

I am hoping to do the switch without reinstalling all my software (unlikely), but I'm prepared to do that. In the past I have always done clean installs on new machines.

I have a nice list of profanity at the ready...


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 5:38 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2019 5:45 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 11-16-2019 6:30 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32683
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 35 of 43 (866859)
11-16-2019 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
11-16-2019 5:34 PM


Re: Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
There may be some issues with some programs but most will likely still work. Even Photoshop 7 still works on Windows 10.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-16-2019 5:34 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 36 of 43 (866861)
11-16-2019 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
11-16-2019 5:34 PM


Re: Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
Win 10 was the first non-clean install of a new system I have ever done. Never liked idea of all the left over crap when you upgrade the OS. It was flawless for me. I have upgraded 7 PC's to 10. 3 were 8.1 to 10 and 2 were 7 to 10.
All went flawless and I ran the cleanup tool after and then ran JV16 Power Tools. It cleans out stuff that is not needed.
jv16 PowerTools - PC System Utilities Software
Their new version is getting released any day now.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-16-2019 5:34 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-16-2019 5:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2378
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 37 of 43 (866864)
11-16-2019 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Theodoric
11-16-2019 5:45 PM


Re: Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
Thanks for the info! I also run a Belarc Advisor profile of the system that has all my software license keys and list of all hardware, etc. A handy reference.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2019 5:45 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5176
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 38 of 43 (866866)
11-16-2019 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tanypteryx
11-16-2019 5:34 PM


Re: Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
You poor man. All I can do is pray for you and hope the cyber gods look kindly upon your upgrade endeavors.

May Bill Gates have mercy on your soul.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-16-2019 5:34 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3820
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 39 of 43 (871658)
02-08-2020 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Percy
11-01-2019 6:18 PM


XP lives!
Still have (1) computer at the radio station that needs to go from 7 to 10.

The XP recorder computer is never connected to the internet, and is connected to a LAN that is not connected to the internet. It would be nice if it were faster (IIRC it has merely a 1GHZ processor), but it gets the job done. And it has a good search utility.

And I love it's Keep It Simple Stupid appearance.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5176
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 40 of 43 (871666)
02-08-2020 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Minnemooseus
02-08-2020 1:10 AM


Re: XP lives!
You say that as if going to Win10 is a necessary imperative.

Is there a corporate IT issue involved?

What reason to (maybe) break this thing that isn't already broken?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-08-2020 1:10 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18369
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 41 of 43 (871667)
02-08-2020 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by AZPaul3
02-08-2020 11:45 AM


Re: XP lives!
AZPaul3 writes:

What reason to (maybe) break this thing that isn't already broken?


Bill Gates needs a new pair of shoes.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4194
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 42 of 43 (871671)
02-08-2020 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Minnemooseus
02-08-2020 1:10 AM


Re: XP lives!
The XP recorder computer is never connected to the internet, and is connected to a LAN that is not connected to the internet. It would be nice if it were faster (IIRC it has merely a 1GHZ processor), but it gets the job done. And it has a good search utility.

And I love it's Keep It Simple ****** appearance.

We had a similar situation at work with the development tools for two decades of products. Many of our development tools were 16-bit applications. Every copy of Windows 10 that I've seen has been 64-bit. A 64-bit system can run 32-bit applications, but not 16-bit ones. There are a lot of very useful applications, including my GNU utilities, which I can no longer use.

For a long time, we kept our XP boxes running so that we could support our product line, but that kept getting harder and harder to do. When I left (retired two years ago), they had arrived at and finished testing out a better solution: run the older development tools in a virtual computer. Not only does that circumvent the perennial problems of upgrading to a new OS, but it also eliminates the day-long and error-prone process of setting up a new computer and loading all the development tools into it. Now all they have to do is install the virtual computer software and copy in the virtual computer image of an XP box with all the tools installed.

For example, at home on my Win7 boxes I installed VMWare Player, then I created two virtual computers and installed WinXP into one and Ubantu Kosmic Koala into the other. After I had done that on my desktop, I simply copied the two virtual computers over to my laptop. Since then, a script on my desktop got screwed up so that I could not install updated versions of VMPlayer and I lost the previous version in the process; since then my desktop upgraded to Win10 but that problem remains. I can still run VMWare on my laptop.

I do not know what virtual computer software they're using at work, but I'm sure that there are several products on the market. The hardware of your XP recorder computer will not last forever, so you might want to look into ways of replacing it, such as setting up a virtual computer. BTW, I very much agree about XP having a good search utility as you can see from my previous postings on this topic.

There's another issue which I'm sure does not apply in your case since you're using XP: hardware backwards compatibility. We have a long-term test setup in which a computer collects readings from an array of items under test, one after the other. The selection of which item to take a reading from is controlled in hardware by an FPGA (field-programmable gate array) which is controlled by signals sent through the computer's parallel printer port, LPT1. Therein lies the rub. The data collection program needs to control the parallel port hardware directly, but the last version of Windows to support that was Win98 SE (maybe ME, which itself was the end of that line). The current Windows philosophy is to protect the hardware from the user, so direct manipulation of the printer port is no longer possible. Since our data collection method requires direct manipulation of the printer port, that locks us into Win98 SE. I don't know whether running a Win98 SE virtual computer would allow that direct manipulation.

The pains of computers changing out from under us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-08-2020 1:10 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2378
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 43 of 43 (878571)
07-01-2020 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by AZPaul3
11-16-2019 6:30 PM


Re: Upgrading to Windows 10 pro this weekend
This was back about 2 weeks before I took a break from EvC.

I was pretty well prepared to try and upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10. I cloned my Win 7 system drive to a new 1Tb SSD and downloaded Win 10 and tried the option of keeping my software and just upgrading the operating system on a 2nd 1Tb SSD.

Everything seemed to go ok. I needed to install upgraded drivers for monitors, graphics cards, Wacom Tablet, and other peripherals. I also needed to do some upgrading of my imaging software. It seemed to be working fine, but the next day when I booted up it couldn't find my hardware and when I tried to look at the drivers I got the never ending spinning circle next to the cursor. Repeated reboots and profanity didn't make it better.

So, I went back to the cloned Win 7 SSD and WOW was it fast. I had 2 huge imaging projects that could not be postponed, so I continued working, using Win 7.

After several months, I received notice from Adobe that they were going to curtail upgrades to their subscription service to run on Windows 7. So I have no choice but to get a functioning version of Win 10 installed.

A clean full install this time. A new 2Tb SSD and a new Win 10 download and I am in business. So I install my software, expecting to get some sort of message from Microsoft about activating Win 10. After a couple days I figure I will force the issue and activate it. It turns out to already be activated in my name using my product key from Win 7.

It is running well months later and is extremely fast compared to even Win 7 on the SSD. I also replaced 3 3Tb internal drives with 3 8Tb drives.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 11-16-2019 6:30 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
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