Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
11 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,465 Year: 3,722/9,624 Month: 593/974 Week: 206/276 Day: 46/34 Hour: 2/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4921 of 5796 (871603)
02-06-2020 12:00 PM


Robert Reich debunks conservative economic mantras
Lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy do not help the overall economy and actually contribute to the redistribution of wealth to the top. With actual facts and data sources.
quote:
Their claim is that cutting taxes on the rich (and for that matter, corporations) will free up capital that will magically find its way back into the economy in the form of investment and hiring. Aside from being demonstrably false (see charts below), it also makes the false assumption that tax rates are what drive or divert hiring and other investments. In reality, more important market signals like demand are what drive these, regardless of tax rates. Cutting taxes on the rich and corporations has done nothing to boost GDP growth. Rather, the added streams of revenue have simply increased profits and increased wealth disparity here in the US.
As he says this is demonstrably false. Those that don't see are not following the facts and data, they are allowing their political viewpoints and prejudices to override reason.
Robert Reich: Several Myths about Taxes and Economics – Fact and Myth
Paul Krugman agrees.
quote:
The record is actually awesomely consistent. Bill Clinton’s tax hike didn’t cause a depression, George W. Bush’s tax cuts didn’t deliver a boom, Jerry Brown’s California tax increase wasn’t economic suicide, Sam Brownback’s Kansas tax-cut experiment (his term) was a failure.
Nevertheless, Republicans persist. This time around, the centerpiece of the tax cut was a huge break for corporations, which was supposed to induce companies to bring back the money they’ve invested overseas and put the money to work here. Instead, they basically used the tax savings to buy back their own stock.
What went wrong? Business investment depends on many factors, with tax rates way down the list. While a casual look at the facts might suggest that corporations invest a lot in countries with low taxes, like Ireland, this is mainly an illusion: Companies use accounting tricks to report huge profits and hence big investments in tax havens, but these don’t correspond to anything real.
There was never any reason to believe that cutting corporate taxes here would lead to a surge in capital spending and jobs, and sure enough, it didn’t.
Opinion | Why Was Trumponomics a Flop? - The New York Times
quote:
In short, the supposed rationale for big corporate tax cuts is based on a misinterpretation of the evidence. Multinational corporations move profits — as reported around based on tax considerations; actual capital, and hence actual economic activity, not so much.
But why aren’t actual capital movements that sensitive to tax rates? There is, I think, an important point about business investment that a lot of discussion has missed.
The business cost of capital doesn’t matter very much
Anyone who follows real-world monetary policy is aware of a dirty little secret about what economists used to call the transmission mechanism: interest rates don’t have much direct effect on business investment. In fact, in general it’s hard to find any effect at all. Monetary policy works through housing and, these days, the exchange rate; if it affects business spending, the effect is indirect, through changes in sales that were caused by housing and the exchange rate.
Opinion | Tax Cuts and Leprechauns (Wonkish) - The New York Times
Now I know conservatives are going to attack Krugman and Reich as being liberal. How about you try something different and show the data and conclusions are wrong and not attack them?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 4942 of 5796 (871657)
02-07-2020 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4937 by Percy
02-07-2020 2:30 PM


Re: Paying down the National Debt, improving society[qs]
But considering just a single company, you suggest taking funds that would have been a company's profits and instead routing them to increased employee compensation. A company unilaterally raising wages within its industry would experience a number of negative consequences, including but not limited to lower competitiveness, increased cost of borrowing, lower dividends (if offered), lower stock price, decreased proceeds from stock offerings, and a diminished ability to expand the business or increase competitiveness.
More conventional wisdom, that is not wisdom. Conservative economic truths seemingly do not survive when the real world is looked at. Costco was mentioned as classic case. Out here in WI/MN are we have convenience store chain named Kwik Trip. They pay a starting wage $2-4/hour higher than the competition. They offer benefits to even their part time employees. 40% of pre-tax profits go back to employees. The profit sharing bonus averages to about 5-9% of an employee's annual salary.
So how is Kwik Trip doing? They are kicking the competitions ass. Most chains in Duluth-Superior have left. Kwik Trip has motivated happy employees. Customers see that and appreciate that. The chain with the highest employee costs is the most successful.
Jobs at Kwik Trip
I don't like the word "socialism" because it's become a loaded term
What term should be used? Instead of coming up with inaccurate words maybe we should actually educate people about what terms like capitalism and socialism mean.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4937 by Percy, posted 02-07-2020 2:30 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4943 by jar, posted 02-08-2020 7:52 AM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 4944 by Percy, posted 02-08-2020 9:57 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4949 of 5796 (871678)
02-08-2020 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4944 by Percy
02-08-2020 9:57 AM


Re: Paying down the National Debt, improving society[qs]
What "conservative economic truths" are you referring to?
That investing in human capital; wages and benefits; is detrimental to the competitiveness and success of a company. You, yourself, have made such a claim.
Mention was all that was done, but my position is that there are many ways to organize successful companies. I'm happy for Costco that they're doing so well (I have only your and RAZD's word for that, I haven't looked this up), but just because Costco is doing well doesn't mean that their corporate approach is the only way of being a successful company.
But they are a prime example that high wages and benefits does not make a company uncompetitive. Sure companies can be successful with low wages and crappy benefits; Walmart. But no one made that claim. You are throwing out a strawman. Walmart's success is on the shoulder of public benefits programs those on the right excoriate.
quote:
High wages and high productivityCostco pays its employees unusually well for a retailer. While the company's starting pay is $11.50 per hour, not much better than many other retailers, the average employee wage is around $20 per hour. The national average wage for a retail sales worker is just $11.39. In addition to high wages, the vast majority of Costco employees also get company-sponsored healthcare.
Costco can afford to pay such high wages because its employees are extremely productive.
3 Reasons Costco Is a Great Company
They attract the best, so get above average productivity. And Costco employees are not dependent on public assistance.
Nothing against Kwik Trip, I know nothing about them, but fact checking your claim, if you enter "duluth mn convenience stores" into Google Maps it displays more Holiday Stationstores than Kwik Trips. "Duluth mn kwik trip" shows 9 locations, while "Duluth mn holiday stationstores" shows 17. I don't consider Google Maps authoritative, but that's the only data I have.
This where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. First of all Holiday Stores have been in the Duluth area for over 25 years. Kwik Trip first entered the market in 2015. Second of all, in order to get a feel for the number of stores you can not just search Duluth. The area around here is known as the Twin Ports. It includes Duluth, Superior, WI and surrounding cities and towns. By pulling up the websites for these companies I can get an accurate count of stores in the area. As Kwik Trip was not even in this area before 2015, I am going to include the area that encompasses their expansion post 2015. Holiday Stationstores has 20 locations, Kwik Trip has 21. All of Kwik Trips were built post 2015. The newest Holiday Store is at least 15 years old. But this is all another strawman. I never said they were the only chain in the area or that no one else is successful. Your claim is that higher wages and better benefits makes a company uncompetitve, This is patently not true.
Find your nearest Kwik Trip location - Kwik Trip | Kwik Star
https://www.holidaystationstores.com/Locations/Search
You and RAZD are making claims that you're not backing up with evidence. Where does your evidence of the success of Kwik Trip, Costco,
Are you claiming they are not successful? Do I Have to post articles showing their growth? Here is one.
Here’s Where Costco Is Opening in 2019
Would an unsuccessful company be making $2.5 billion in capital improvements in next 5 years
https://madison.com/...9abd-8d5e-59e3-874a-901d2e15f863.html
What more evidence do you want to show that Costco and Kwik Trip are successful companies?
Socialism means state ownership of business and industry
In fact using Wiki as you did, this is not correct.
quote:
Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprise,[8][9] as well as the political theories and movements associated with such systems.[10] Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[11] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[12] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.[1][13][14]
Socialism - Wikipedia
quote:
However, state ownership and nationalization by themselves are not socialist, as they can exist under a wide variety of different political and economic systems for a variety of different reasons.
State ownership - Wikipedia
What you have defined is state socialism.
quote:
State socialism is a classification for any socialist political and economic perspective advocating state ownership of the means of production, either as a temporary measure in the transition from capitalism to socialism or as characteristic of socialism itself.[1]
State socialism is often used interchangeably with state capitalism in reference to the economic systems of Marxist—Leninist states such as the Soviet Union to highlight the role of state planning in these economies, with the critics of said system referring to it more commonly as state capitalism.[2] Democratic and libertarian socialists claim that these states had only a limited number of socialist characteristics.[3][4][5] However, Marxist—Leninists maintain that workers in the Soviet Union and other Marxist—Leninist states had genuine control over the means of production through institutions such as trade unions.[6]
State socialism - Wikipedia
Trump will slaughter anyone embracing the socialist label in November.
But no one is embracing that label are they? You seem to want to pin it on them, but no one is embracing it.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4944 by Percy, posted 02-08-2020 9:57 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4958 by Percy, posted 02-09-2020 4:23 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4950 of 5796 (871679)
02-08-2020 5:56 PM


For the socalled fiscal conservative, social liberals
It is really just a cop out. A sop to your feelings.
quote:
There’s no way around it: Fiscal conservatism decreases federal funding, and therefore diverts money away from social programs that protect the medical, educational, and social rights of millions of American citizens. So why do so many people still cling to this ideology? Maybe it’s due to a misunderstanding of the ways in which poverty operates. Perhaps it’s a feature of being raised in a financially sheltered and socially stable environment. It might, like so many other truths we hold, just be a logical disconnect.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter why many people have tolerated the financially conservative but socially liberal narrative for so long. What matters is the willingness to accept the fact that an ideology we might consider right or comfortable can cause tangible hurt. Instead of running from this discomfort, though, we should acknowledge it as a growing pain a marker of conversation that can make us wiser, kinder, and more aware...
We must realize that when we say, I’m fiscally conservative but socially liberal, what we’re really saying is, I care about poor people and POC, but not enough to confront how my ideology marginalizes them.
What we’re really saying is, I only want to seem like I care.And that hurts to hear. So instead of continuing to defend the financially conservative but socially liberal narrative with roundabout rhetoric and defensive But I care! interjections, let’s simply digest the fact and put our money where our mouths are. Let’s fight for justice using all of our resources and privileges, financial ones included. Because it’s logical, because it’s what will increase the life chances of individuals in marginalized communities, because it’s what must be done.
Newsflash: You Can’t Be Financially Conservative And Socially Liberal – FEM Newsmagazine

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4957 of 5796 (871695)
02-09-2020 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4954 by Hyroglyphx
02-09-2020 2:26 PM


Re: Paying down the National Debt, improving society begins with education
I had a very well paid career with a Humanities degree. I know a few people with undergrad science degrees making peanuts.
Anecdotal evidence is not very good evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4954 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-09-2020 2:26 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4961 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-09-2020 7:23 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4979 of 5796 (872113)
02-20-2020 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 4977 by Faith
02-20-2020 3:34 AM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
What rally? Where?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4977 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 3:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4980 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 5:24 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4982 of 5796 (872128)
02-20-2020 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4980 by Faith
02-20-2020 5:24 PM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
So this is a lie. You have no idea how many people or how full. Just lies.
Faith writes:
They filled the Coliseum, 15,000 capacity, with thousands outside who couldn't get in.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4980 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 5:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4983 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 7:05 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4984 of 5796 (872130)
02-20-2020 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4983 by Faith
02-20-2020 7:05 PM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
Provide actual data and facts. It is not my duty to find the data to back up your arguments. WHy should I trust what you say. Provide data and I will believe it. Until then I have no reason to believe and have no desire to do the research. You made the claim, back it with data. You are probably correct, there are that many idiots down there that are willing to go to a free event to have red meat thrown at them, but I want to see actual data.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4983 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 7:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4985 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 7:16 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4986 of 5796 (872132)
02-20-2020 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4983 by Faith
02-20-2020 7:05 PM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
donnie is known to book second and third tier arenas in cities in order to make turnout seem more massive. If seating was 15,000 he must have had it at the Veteran's Memorial Coliseum. That is the second tier arena in Phoenix.
I see his Charlotte rally is at Bojangles Arena. It was old and decrepit 30 years ago when I lived there. It only has about 8k seating capacity. I am sure he will say it was the most packed rally ever.
FYI, Obama got crowds of up to 100k.
Just sayin.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4983 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 7:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4987 by Faith, posted 02-20-2020 7:37 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5003 of 5796 (872165)
02-21-2020 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4996 by Percy
02-20-2020 10:14 PM


Re: We Need More Legal Immigrants
For this administration and the GOP "legal immigrants" means white, native English speakers.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4996 by Percy, posted 02-20-2020 10:14 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5007 by Faith, posted 02-21-2020 3:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5004 of 5796 (872166)
02-21-2020 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4998 by Percy
02-21-2020 8:38 AM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
Lying is easy. Finding out actual facts is not.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4998 by Percy, posted 02-21-2020 8:38 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5005 of 5796 (872167)
02-21-2020 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4999 by Faith
02-21-2020 9:40 AM


Re: Trump Rally Streaming
Theodoric didn't know there was a rally in Phoenix
Another lie. I never said I did not know about the rally. You never said what rally the video was from. It could have been from any rally. I was not going to watch the video. If you are going to post things and make claims, explain what you are posting and provide actual facts.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4999 by Faith, posted 02-21-2020 9:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5006 by Faith, posted 02-21-2020 3:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5089 of 5796 (872421)
02-27-2020 8:56 AM


Coronavirus conspiracy theories
OK lets put the conspiracy theories to rest so we can actually prepare and so that actual work can be done on a vaccine.
Facts not propaganda.
quote:
Coronaviruses are a group of viruses that tend to cause respiratory illnesses in humans and a variety of other illnesses in animals, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention explains on its website. The name comes from the crown, or corona-like appearance of infective viruses when seen under a microscope.
One patent is for a genetic sequence of the virus that causes SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, a disease that spread to dozens of countries in 2003, sickening more than 8,000 people and killing 774.
The sequencing was done at the CDC during the SARS outbreak and they were the ones that filed the patent, Matthew Frieman, a coronavirus researcher at the University of Maryland, explained in an email.
The CDC told the Associated Press in 2003 that the agency was claiming ownership to ensure access, and to prevent others from controlling the technology. In a phone interview, Columbia law professor Harold Edgar told us that following a U.S. Supreme Court case decided in 2013, U.S. patent law no longer allows for patents on viral sequences as they exist in nature.
The other supposedly related patent is for a mutated form of avian infectious bronchitis virus, or IBV, which infects poultry, but not people. The patent was filed by the Pirbright Institute, a research institute in the U.K. whose mission is to prevent and control viral diseases of livestock. The mutations were created to attenuate, or weaken, the virus, so that it could be used as a vaccine to protect chickens from the disease.
Social Media Posts Spread Bogus Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory - FactCheck.org

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5112 of 5796 (872614)
02-29-2020 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 5109 by Faith
02-29-2020 11:59 AM


Re: Why Pence?
But you can not provide the NYT article. Because it does not exist. Are you lying? Again?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5109 by Faith, posted 02-29-2020 11:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5113 by Faith, posted 02-29-2020 7:19 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 5120 of 5796 (872649)
03-01-2020 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5119 by Faith
03-01-2020 11:56 AM


Re: This One's For You
Crawl back into your hole you lying troll.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5119 by Faith, posted 03-01-2020 11:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5121 by Faith, posted 03-01-2020 12:16 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024