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Author | Topic: Charismatic Chaos | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jar writes:
As Tangle's dictionary agrees with me, racism is behavior. But it is not racism that is the issue but behavior...."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
The dictionary includes a wide range of usages. In the context of this discussion, a broad definition that includes all forms of racial discrimination is not useful.
I disagree with that and so does the dictionary. Hroglyphx writes:
Again, "hating someone based upon their race alone" is too wishy-washy to be useful in this discussion. Use the word "hate" instead of racism.
Power makes it easier to manifest one's racism in the form of oppression but its not a requirement to hate someone based upon their race alone. Hyroglyphx writes:
Beliefs are irrelevant. I doubt that Theodoric cares whether somebody believes they are superior to him or whether they believe that pink unicorns are secretly ruling the earth. Beliefs only matter when they impinge on other people's lives and they can only do that through action. That action can take the form of burning a cross on a lawn or just closing your eyes.
... stripped down to its purest form it just means either/or the belief that one race is superior to another or the discrimination of people based only on account of race. Hyroglyphx writes:
Sure, a gringo in Mexico can be a victim of racism. But the only society we can improve is our own. Anyone, at any time, is capable of that."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
In Message 424 you said:
I predict that it will again become the religion of the poor.quote: "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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GDR writes:
Is there any evidence of that? The early Christians were highly distinctive in contrast to their violent, self-serving culture, for the way that they loved each other, the way that loved their neighbours and even their enemies."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
Well, of course there are things I can call myself that I can't call other people. Just as a demonstration of the asymmetry of values here, somehow you are comfortable saying that but might not be so comfortable saying... Sure, a [slang word for Mexican] in the USA can be a victim of racism ? The point is that I don't mind calling myself a gringo or being called a gringo because I have never been a victim of my gringoness. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't an insult. My culture has groomed me to take pride in my gringoness. Even while being persecuted by a Mexican majority, I would be inwardly looking down on them.
Tangle writes:
We don't have many Mexicans here. Our Hispanics tend to be Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, etc. - i.e. victims of American foreign policy. I've worked with a lot of them. They're the best people I know, despite my innate racism.
Not being from your part of the world I don't know what that word might be. Tangle writes:
Well, I have used the n-word a couple of times on this forum, not aggressively and not as an insult. No offense was intended and, as far as I know, none was taken.
These things only become offensive when they're being used aggressively and as deliberate insults. Tangle writes:
A fat guy doesn't have any right to be insulted if somebody calls him fat. Embarassment might be appropriate. He might even be thankful for having it pointed out. And 'privileged white guy' is being used just like that now...."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Because I ask for evidence? No, that would be the world's smallest skeptic. Asking for evidence is literally the least I can do without being a gullible fool.
You must surely be the worlds biggest skeptic. Phat writes:
There is no evidence that Jesus existed. But the charaqcter of the "people of the Way" is definitely not superior, according to the evidence.
I suppose you think that not only was jesus made up but the very character of the people of the Way. Phat writes:
I can and do argue that non-Christians are at least as loving and selfless, often more so.
And I suppose you can and do argue that any group of people can be loving and selfless. Phat writes:
In the same way that you miss the unicorns grazing in your living room. I still think you miss the additional spark that some people have."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have no desire to meet the loathsome "god" that Faith worships. God is a much bigger concept than ringo feeding people and doing his chores.
ringo writes:
It would be nice to meet God someday. Why would we need - or want - a concept bigger than that?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Interesting that you use the word "corporate" instead of "communal".
I do believe that corporate worship--prayer with a group of people--unites us if but for that moment. Phat writes:
Is calculus less important if you learn it from George instead of Jim? And what still bothers me is your idea that the lessons can have value even if not literally coming from God."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What if I make you the same offer? You can meet a random person; he might be a billionaire philanthropist who adopts you - or a serial killer, or a whiny little loser. Would you jump at the chance of meeting him?
What about the God (pick one) from the OT? What about Jesus Father? What about Jesus Himself? Phat writes:
There are plenty of people in the world who are as "nice" as Jesus. I don't have any need to meet every one of them. What about Jesus Himself? Would you be eager to meet Him or would you wave Him off and say that you were doing just fine?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Why can't you accept Mormonism or Islam without questioning them? ... you--unique among Christians we know--cant simply accept what many others accept without not only questioning it but trashing it."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
How can you commit to beliefs when there is nothing to back them up? It's pretty much a random choice what you believe - which is why most people believe what they learned as children. Committing to a belief is heading in the direction of fanaticism. ... you just can't commit to their beliefs."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You didn't let us test his honesty. I did find your honest apologist in Bart Campolo."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
We've been through that many times. Compare what he says against what the Bible says. If you figure a way to do it, I would encourage you to follow through. Just how will we test him?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You said, "I did find your honest apologist in Bart Campolo." Message 492 he used no scripture. How is he an apologist if he uses no scripture?
Phat writes:
We've been telling you that for years. He basically just gave me 3 things to think about.1) Be careful who I listen to 2) Be honest with myself 3) Don't be afraid. "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then he was an apologist and now he may be honest. To be an "honest apologist" he'd have to be an apologist and honest at the same time. He sounds like a reformed apologist. Because he was a believer for 20 years."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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