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Author | Topic: Charismatic Chaos | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The "healing" of the lady on crutches is probably staged. Let me pick a person to be healed. Judge for yourselves. is it staged? Fake? The falling down is theatrical silliness. Let's see God catch them.
Phat writes:
I'd used the word "hoping" instead of "expecting". They're hoping for a miracle so much that they're willing to give God a little help (and also confident that there's a henchmen there to catch them). Are the people simply expecting something to happen and falling on their own?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Funny how those faith healers feel the need to supply evidence. If people go to a healing service "expecting something" it always makes me wonder why they cant simply expect God to do it anyway."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's what I keep telling you but you seem to think "Satan" is a real entity; you keep talking about "spiritual warfare".
Gods "powerful rival" is humans themselves. Phat writes:
We don't "decide" that He is illogical. We look at your logic and we see it doesn't work.
We either believe in Him and then make money off of His name or we decide that He is illogical and seek to throw Him away. Phat writes:
That idea is so obviously true that it shouldn't have to be presented at all.
You have presented the idea that God is unnecessary and that we have to do it all ourselves anyway. Phat writes:
There are certainly no benefits beyond what non-Christians have. But the benefits of doing unto others should be pretty obvious. If, however, Christianity is only about what we do, it is at best another chore with no benefits for being a member."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Step one would be to get all four stories separately and see if there is actually any agreement. As I have mentioned before, I once had a definite encounter with an unknown chorus of voices. There were but 4 of us present. To this day the event is etched in our minds. But in any case, that seems to contradict what you were saying about God's only powerful rival being us.
Phat writes:
No more so than the idea that unicorns are necessary.
... the idea that belief (and/or God) is unnecessary is very much a hot button topic. Phat writes:
Then show us the benefits.
As of this writing, I am unconvinced that Christians do not benefit from the Communion beyond what non-Christians have. Phat writes:
There "should" be no diseases that make children suffer - but there are. Things are what they are, not what they "should" be. ... it is the way it *should* be, in my opinion."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question you should be asking yourself is why would God NOT be all-inclusive? We know why humans like to exclude each other but why would God? What an all inclusive heneric form of a Deity that would be."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
"All-inclusive" means all humans, doesn't it? Why would God prefer the obsequious ones? I believe that God chose to focus on humans rather than simply all lifeforms on the planet."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The RSVP would usually be, "I'll be there, plus one," or, "No, thank you very much but I am otherwise engaged." You likely would size up the Host and decide whether you even wanted to stay! Your Host is saying, "Be there or else!""I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why should I believe you over the Bible? Your version is self-serving.
ringo writes:
Nonsense. Your Host is saying, "Be there or else!" Phat writes:
Why can't I decide for myself what I want to miss?
He might at worst say "You don't wanna miss this! Phat writes:
Nonsense.
There are just some events and communions that reality dictates can and should not be missed. Phat writes:
Why on earth would you "fear" that?
I fear that were you to define a God of your approval, He likely would be all laid back and simply say to people to show up if they wanted there were free loonies and toonies and lots of food but that they were entirely free to be otherwise engaged. Phat writes:
My idea of God is the same as my idea of unicorns. And "communion" with them is nonsense.
Your idea of God is that of an optional relationship and communion. Phat writes:
As I have pointed out before, that inoculation ain't workin' - which suggests that the "communion" ain't real. My idea is not that of an autocrat but rather of a concerned deity who knows that we need the inoculation His communion provides."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes, that suggests that there was no real "communion", that it was a one-way street with the priests telling the people what God wanted.
Remember the Israelites? How they knew what their responsibilities were before God and yet they kept slipping? Worshipping other things? getting greedy for the spoils of war? Phat writes:
You're making that up. As far as we know, those words came directly from God, just like, "Love thy neighbour."
Maybe even fudging a bit and putting words in Gods' mouth? Words such as "kill all of the enemies women and children...(except rape the women first) Phat writes:
There's no "seem" about it. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, He is as unnecessary as a herd of unicorns.
... you seem to stand on the idea that He is unnecessary. Phat writes:
What if it's poison? (Jim Jones.)
It is about food that nourishes the soul. if you can find it without religion, more power to you...but it is my belief that you will never find it without Him, since He is the bread of life. Phat writes:
He really is though.
he is not standing in a lineup with a spaghetti monster, Buddha, and Muhammed. Phat writes:
Jesus did. He said God would take care of you if you had faith. ... noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing. And I don't care how much you malign the book. It carries more weight than your wishful thinking.
Phat writes:
I embrace a socialist society because we are an inherently social species. We are a socialist society despite the evil forces that support selfishness. You yourself don't even believe that He exists, yet you would embrace a socialist society. And our socialist society is necessary because there is no God to do it for us.
Phat writes:
Have you driven on a road lately? Did you build it yourself?
fact is, there isn't one yet... Phat writes:
Tell it to Jesus. ... anyone who sells everything and waits for their comrades to help them will end up freezing to death while they wait."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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