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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 647 of 1086 (869376)
12-29-2019 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 644 by Theodoric
12-29-2019 1:31 PM


Re: Examining The Evidence
Theo writes:
Can you name any major atheist pundit that has misrepresented their credentials?
No, and I don't really care to look. Would you argue, however, that Christians have a worse track record than atheists? Or are we all the same?
He probably did justify the titles, in hid own mind, but he was consciously misrepresenting himself and scamming people.
Why is it so easy for Christians to forgive one another and so hard for you?
Ravi is a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel.
What bothers me more is that now you trust nobody from RZIM. Do you think that all Christian apologists are in the same boat, as jar does?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 644 by Theodoric, posted 12-29-2019 1:31 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by Theodoric, posted 12-29-2019 5:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 650 of 1086 (869394)
12-29-2019 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 649 by ringo
12-29-2019 2:11 PM


Re: Examining The Evidence
ringo writes:
How can I respond to their assumptions if you won't bring them here?
OK lets start with a common one:
4 Spiritual Laws
This is a common apologetic. It is scriptural. Now go ahead and trash it---its what you do.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by ringo, posted 12-29-2019 2:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by jar, posted 12-29-2019 4:43 PM Phat has replied
 Message 658 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 10:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 651 of 1086 (869395)
12-29-2019 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by ringo
12-29-2019 2:09 PM


Who is On The Throne?
The basic teaching is shown in this diagram. I have always told you that we humans seek to deify ourselves and be on the throne. This is where I must have gotten that concept.
Phat writes:
... please show us that you are well on your way to selling everything.
Whereupon ringo artfully dodges the responsibility that he hoists upon me:
...As I've told you before, I don't even believe that Jesus existed. Why would I follow His advice any more than I would follow Fred Flintstone's advice? I'm just wondering why you claim to believe in Him yet you ridicule His advice.
Because I'm human. We were created with the freedom to rebel. Jesus is the antidote to satan. Satan basically created himself (evil) by having the freedom to disobey the Boss. Granted that God created a freewilled Lucifer but God did not *make* him rebel.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by ringo, posted 12-29-2019 2:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 10:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 654 of 1086 (869399)
12-29-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by jar
12-29-2019 4:43 PM


Re: Examining The Evidence
jar writes:
no value, no meaning, no charge, no morality, nothing but CON!
The value is having Christ accept you.
The morality should also stem from Him to us, but Baughman claims that this isnt happening.
Steve Baughman,from his book writes:
Thoughtful readers will spare me the Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven straw man. No skeptic worth her salt considers the absence of perfect Christians to be evidence against the truth of the religion. The claim is, rather, that if Christianity were true, Christians would be noticeably different around the things that matter, like money and integrity in business. They aren’t. Therefore, . . .
Baughman, Steve. Cover-Up in the Kingdom: Phone Sex, Lies, And God's Great Apologist, Ravi Zacharias . BookBaby. Kindle Edition.
Thus we have an argument there.
no charge
This really is it. The old Prep School Honor System Writ Large. I won't argue. We all can always do more.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by jar, posted 12-29-2019 4:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by jar, posted 12-29-2019 5:37 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 660 of 1086 (869460)
12-30-2019 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 659 by ringo
12-30-2019 10:46 AM


Re: Who is On The Throne?
ringo writes:
That's not an excuse for you to rebel against Jesus' teachings and then claim to "believe in Him".
I'll be honest with you. If Jesus really ment those specific words "sell all you have: for every Christian, I would not follow Him. You put me in the hot seat and I had to be honest. My faith must surely be weak, as is the faith of many "professors". Apologists indeed do get us off the hook, but then we are faced with answering the charges that we have made up our own religion.
Meanwhile, church armed guards are on the news saying that they "killed pure evil" by taking out a gunman in church with a shot to the head.
We truly live in crazy times. My jury is currently out again---I am considering much of the new information I have received.
Oh, and about Ravi: I read the entire book by atheist lawyer Richard Baughman. I conclude that while Ravi was deceptive, and was in fact guilty of initial lies and coverup, I conclude that the author of the book seemed to have a definite agenda of prosecuting Ravi fully and publically no matter the cost. Christians forgive their brothers and sisters and an indictment is not a forever thing. Secular people are tougher on people who lie or harm others, never again giving them an opportunity to repent or be redeemed.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 10:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 5:11 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 662 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2019 5:41 PM Phat has replied
 Message 663 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2019 4:04 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 664 by ringo, posted 12-31-2019 11:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 665 of 1086 (869539)
01-01-2020 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 664 by ringo
12-31-2019 11:09 AM


Faith Based Reply To Mike The Wizard
Happy New Year, Mike! This coming from Thugzy to "The Wiz". (Shall we research the word, "Wiz"? ) Of course I am not involved in some ancient Indian Blood Cult, but how thoughtful that you noticed! I am up bright and early on this New Years' day primarily because I believe that it is better to start a new year fresh, sober, and enthusiastic rather than end a year high as a kite, sleeping in late on the morning of the New Year. And before we go any further in this reply, I want everyone to note that I am transferring this post and this discussion from a Science Topic, where Stile lays out a basic evidence-based argument on God to the Apologetic Thread. This post will appear in both threads, but I want to draw a clear line between evidence-based thinking and Biblical Inspiration, which our fascinating friend jar trashes as a PT Barnum Circus sideshow.
***************************************************************
To all who seek to reply to this post, I shall offer you two choices.
Faith Based & Apologetic Responses here.
ringo writes:
If there is an argument against what Jesus said, for God's sake, tell us what it is.
***************************************************************
I am replying to you, Ringo but also to Mike The Wiz from our science topic, Here.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by ringo, posted 12-31-2019 11:09 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 666 by ringo, posted 01-01-2020 12:03 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 667 of 1086 (871762)
02-11-2020 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Theodoric
12-30-2019 5:41 PM


An Honest Apologist
Theodoric writes:
Amazing how Ravi never really apologized or took responsibility for his lying. Yet you "forgive" him. How about listening to people that don't lie so you don't have to forgive them for lying to you
I'm through with Ravi. He no longer impresses me and is just another Christian Apologist in my book. If everyone recalls, I said earlier in Message 104 that Bart Campolo, a secular humanist chaplain at the University of Cincinnati was my example of an honest apologist. Now, 3 months later, I have gotten to talk with him and he featured me on his Humanize Me podcast. For those interested, the advice he gives me is quite good and it is honest, in my opinion. I am only on the podcast as a recorded voice, but he spends 30 minutes giving me good advice.
In The Pew But Questioning #504
I also had an hour interactive chat with him on Skype. That he took time to talk with me was quite a blessing. Yes, some of what he said hurts, but I feel the tough love of a qualified counselor...a trait that many pastors do not have.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : better sub title

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2019 5:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 668 of 1086 (871996)
02-17-2020 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 666 by ringo
01-01-2020 12:03 PM


David Platt: Author or Apologist?
I recently purchased David Platt's book on Audible. Something Needs to Change: A Call to Make Your Life Count in a World of Urgent Need I am listening to it the next few days. It looked good. Platt is not a professional apologist but rather an author. My jury is still out whether or not he is trustworthy as a source for contemplation or whether I am merely helping him earn a living. He talks a good talk. Stay tuned.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by ringo, posted 01-01-2020 12:03 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 669 of 1086 (871998)
02-17-2020 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 664 by ringo
12-31-2019 11:09 AM


Re: Who is On The Throne?
ringo writes:
If there is an argument against what Jesus said, for God's sake, tell us what it is. If the apologists have a "better" version, tell us what it is.
I'll repeat what I've said many times before:
1. Elijah told the widow to give him the last of her food, even though she believed she and her son would die as a result.
2. Jesus pointed out the widow who gave her last two mites and He applauded her for it.
3. Jesus told the rich man to sell what he had and give to the poor; the rich man responded exactly as you do.
4. The early church at Rome believed that Jesus meant what He said; they pooled all of their resources - and Ananias and Sapphira were struck down by God for holding back.
There is a definite trend in the Bible.
The only counter-argument that you have presented is that Zacchaeus offered half of what he had. (We are not told whether he got away with it.) Do the apologists have a better argument?
I do. Quite simply, giving everything is more symbolic than literal. Anyone foolish enough to give every spare loonie that they have (including in the bank) away would soon find themselves homeless with the ones they are trying to help.
To be honest, the gambling problem that I struggled with hurt me more than had i simply given that money away. At 60 years old, I count the years until retirement. To me, retiring does not mean sitting around living a good life while others starve or are homeless, but it also does not mean selling all I have and becoming homeless myself. Can I count on Social Security? Can I count that there are enough socialist progressives to find a way to refund Social Security and take care of my basic needs?
This book by David Platt was purchased with those questions in mind. Stay tuned for some feedback as to whether the book has value in influencing my beliefs and actions.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by ringo, posted 12-31-2019 11:09 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 670 by ringo, posted 02-18-2020 10:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 671 of 1086 (872053)
02-19-2020 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 670 by ringo
02-18-2020 10:51 AM


Loonies, Toonies, and Homelessness
It was a different era. Christians were persecuted and few of them had much money at all. In today's age, there is enough money in the social safety nets that even poor people have enough to eat. My point is this: If you are not poor, why on earth would you make yourself poor?
Look at it this way. If I were virtually homeless to begin with, giving away the last 5 dollars in my pocket would gain me some friends who may help me later on, were they able. If I was a basic worker with a basic rental house, however, I would need more money or I too would be homeless. While true that I could theoretically give many more people $5.00, once I gave a hundred of them that much, I would be unable to pay rent and would soon land out on the park bench with them.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 670 by ringo, posted 02-18-2020 10:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 672 by Tangle, posted 02-19-2020 3:33 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 673 by ringo, posted 02-19-2020 2:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 674 of 1086 (872072)
02-19-2020 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 673 by ringo
02-19-2020 2:17 PM


Re: Loonies, Toonies, and Homelessness
ringo writes:
Why would you not trust God to take care of you?
It may be the case that I don't trust ringo to take care of me. Or any of my friends here in Denver. After all, you yourself said that all evidence points to us having to do it ourselves. As for God, I'm not entirely sure what His intentions are.
All I can speak of with any degree of evidence is humans.
Thank God for social security! I am due to receive a modest sum in a few years....which at current rates will pay the rent and the heat and lights. After that is all paid, I will have perhaps $100.00 a week for food and entertainment. I may have to end up using the library computer as you do!
Jesus may provide our needs, and we are charged to help others, but you need to be a bit clearer as to what YOU expect Christians to do in regards to following their book.
ringo writes:
Look at the story of the widow who gave Elijah her last morsel of food. She was provided for.
OK lets have a look.
Elijah and the Widow at Zarephath writes:
7 Some time later the brook dried up because there had been no rain in the land. 8 Then the word of the Lord came to him: 9 Go at once to Zarephath in the region of Sidon and stay there. I have directed a widow there to supply you with food. 10 So he went to Zarephath. When he came to the town gate, a widow was there gathering sticks. He called to her and asked, Would you bring me a little water in a jar so I may have a drink? 11 As she was going to get it, he called, And bring me, please, a piece of bread.
12 As surely as the Lord your God lives, she replied, I don’t have any breadonly a handful of flour in a jar and a little olive oil in a jug. I am gathering a few sticks to take home and make a meal for myself and my son, that we may eat itand die.
13 Elijah said to her, Don’t be afraid. Go home and do as you have said. But first, make a small loaf of bread for me from what you have and bring it to me, and then make something for yourself and your son. 14 For this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘The jar of flour will not be used up and the jug of oil will not run dry until the day the Lord sends rain on the land.’
15 She went away and did as Elijah had told her. So there was food every day for Elijah and for the woman and her family. 16 For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry, in keeping with the word of the Lord spoken by Elijah.
Looks like she gave the last of what she had--part of it anyway--and it miraculously lasted 7 days. I'm not sure I have enough faith to trust that my last loaf of bread is enough for me while handing out money to the poor hand over fist.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by ringo, posted 02-19-2020 2:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 675 by ringo, posted 02-19-2020 3:33 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 676 of 1086 (872077)
02-19-2020 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by ringo
02-19-2020 3:33 PM


Humina Humina Humina...Who Do You Trust?
Let's take this step by step.
ringo writes:
I have never told you what you should do. I have only told you what Jesus told you to do.
Indeed you have. You are quite good at quoting the book in context. You have also said before that all available evidence shows that we must do it ourselves as there are no Gods or Angels out mowing the lawn, feeding hungry people, or delivering the paper.
ringo writes:
As I've told you before, I don't even believe that Jesus existed. Why would I follow His advice any more than I would follow Fred Flintstone's advice? I'm just wondering why you claim to believe in Him yet you ridicule His advice.
I question His advice since he expects me to do it all myself. If some bumpkin came down the sidewalk and told me to mow my lawn and weed my garden, I would ask him what leg he had to stand on in ordering me to do such stuff. If a character in a book tells me to sell everything and trust that I will be taken care of, I might expect him to offer me land in Florida next. Right next to Benny Hinn's place.
ringo writes:
But the topic is Testing the Christian Apologists. Are you admitting that they've failed the test?
If anything, listening to them has caused me to think about whether I believe the validity of the message that they say. I have been listening to a variety of people some of whom qualify as educated or authoritative and some just laymen as many of us at EvC are also. Some podcasts of late:
Ask Science Mike
Dogma Debate
Oh and The Friendly Atheist: Ep. 301 - Even "Christianity Today" Wants Trump Gone
Trusting Jesus--as a living presence and not simply a character in a book--takes work. How do I know it is Him talking to me and not my own conscience or something even worse? How do I know that He doesn't talk to me through you? Or jar? To be honest, I have grown a bit cold of most of the Christian Apologists, and have been listening to many audio podcasts of random people whom I never knew. I suppose you could say that I am listening to more and more people in order to decide for myself what a consensus might involve and whether God would be part of that communion or whether it would be profitable to be a secular humanist?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by ringo, posted 02-19-2020 3:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 4:29 PM Phat has replied
 Message 688 by ringo, posted 02-20-2020 10:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 678 of 1086 (872082)
02-19-2020 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by jar
02-19-2020 4:29 PM


Re: Humina Humina Humina...Who Do You Trust?
OK, I will ask you the same question I asked ringo. Would you sell all that you had to feed the poor? Why or why not?
Do you feel that you do enough? Do you ruin the race with every bit of strength left in your old bones?
The question should not be what is the profitable thing to do rather what is the RIGHT thing to do.
Would god expect us to take a loss? Is doing the right thing often unprofitable? And how much are we ready to lose?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 4:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 5:34 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 682 of 1086 (872091)
02-19-2020 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by jar
02-19-2020 5:34 PM


Re: Humina Humina Humina...Who Do You Trust?
jar writes:
The charge is to do what is right. Not because there is some profit but because it is the right thing to do.
But what if the bill wiped out whats left of the surplus nest egg that the American Middle class has earned over the last 80 years? Trashing the resources of one group of people who indirectly benefitted from yet did not initiate the privileges would be fixing some inequities yet creating others! If you really think that we sons and daughters of the greatest generation that fought World War II are gonna become reparative kum ba yah socialists because someone says its the right thing to do you must have more faith in how we end up faring than we do.
Edited by Phat, : Spelling

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 5:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 9:30 PM Phat has replied
 Message 689 by ringo, posted 02-20-2020 10:45 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 684 of 1086 (872096)
02-20-2020 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 683 by jar
02-19-2020 9:30 PM


Re: Humina Humina Humina...Who Do You Trust?
Who is gonna collect it? What if we turn our bank money into gold and refuse to pay out a dime?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by jar, posted 02-19-2020 9:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by jar, posted 02-20-2020 7:29 AM Phat has replied

  
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