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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 503 of 531 (871884)
02-14-2020 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
02-14-2020 4:09 AM


Re: Modern Day Falling Out
Phat writes:

Judge for yourselves. is it staged? Fake?


The "healing" of the lady on crutches is probably staged. Let me pick a person to be healed.

The falling down is theatrical silliness. Let's see God catch them.

Phat writes:

Are the people simply expecting something to happen and falling on their own?


I'd used the word "hoping" instead of "expecting". They're hoping for a miracle so much that they're willing to give God a little help (and also confident that there's a henchmen there to catch them).

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 02-14-2020 4:09 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 02-14-2020 12:44 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 506 of 531 (871904)
02-14-2020 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Phat
02-14-2020 12:44 PM


Re: Modern Day Falling Out
Phat writes:

If people go to a healing service "expecting something" it always makes me wonder why they cant simply expect God to do it anyway.


Funny how those faith healers feel the need to supply evidence.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Phat, posted 02-14-2020 12:44 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 509 of 531 (871982)
02-17-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
02-17-2020 3:10 AM


Re: Lifetime Of Sacrificial Chores
Phat writes:

Gods "powerful rival" is humans themselves.

That's what I keep telling you but you seem to think "Satan" is a real entity; you keep talking about "spiritual warfare".

Phat writes:

We either believe in Him and then make money off of His name or we decide that He is illogical and seek to throw Him away.

We don't "decide" that He is illogical. We look at your logic and we see it doesn't work.

Phat writes:

You have presented the idea that God is unnecessary and that we have to do it all ourselves anyway.

That idea is so obviously true that it shouldn't have to be presented at all.

Phat writes:

If, however, Christianity is only about what we do, it is at best another chore with no benefits for being a member.

There are certainly no benefits beyond what non-Christians have. But the benefits of doing unto others should be pretty obvious.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 02-17-2020 3:10 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 4:09 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 517 of 531 (872038)
02-18-2020 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 510 by Phat
02-18-2020 4:09 PM


Re: Lifetime Of Sacrificial Chores
Phat writes:

As I have mentioned before, I once had a definite encounter with an unknown chorus of voices. There were but 4 of us present. To this day the event is etched in our minds.

Step one would be to get all four stories separately and see if there is actually any agreement.

But in any case, that seems to contradict what you were saying about God's only powerful rival being us.

Phat writes:

... the idea that belief (and/or God) is unnecessary is very much a hot button topic.

No more so than the idea that unicorns are necessary.

Phat writes:

As of this writing, I am unconvinced that Christians do not benefit from the Communion beyond what non-Christians have.

Then show us the benefits.

Phat writes:

... it is the way it *should* be, in my opinion.

There "should" be no diseases that make children suffer - but there are. Things are what they are, not what they "should" be.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 4:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 519 of 531 (872040)
02-18-2020 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by Phat
02-18-2020 7:25 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

What an all inclusive heneric form of a Deity that would be.

The question you should be asking yourself is why would God NOT be all-inclusive? We know why humans like to exclude each other but why would God?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 7:25 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 02-19-2020 3:19 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 521 of 531 (872075)
02-19-2020 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Phat
02-19-2020 3:19 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

I believe that God chose to focus on humans rather than simply all lifeforms on the planet.

"All-inclusive" means all humans, doesn't it? Why would God prefer the obsequious ones?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 02-19-2020 3:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by Phat, posted 02-19-2020 4:19 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 523 of 531 (872111)
02-20-2020 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by Phat
02-19-2020 4:19 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

You likely would size up the Host and decide whether you even wanted to stay!

The RSVP would usually be, "I'll be there, plus one," or, "No, thank you very much but I am otherwise engaged."

Your Host is saying, "Be there or else!"

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Phat, posted 02-19-2020 4:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 11:15 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 525 of 531 (872115)
02-20-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 524 by Phat
02-20-2020 11:15 AM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Your Host is saying, "Be there or else!"

Nonsense.

Why should I believe you over the Bible? Your version is self-serving.

Phat writes:

He might at worst say "You don't wanna miss this!

Why can't I decide for myself what I want to miss?

Phat writes:

There are just some events and communions that reality dictates can and should not be missed.

Nonsense.

Phat writes:

I fear that were you to define a God of your approval, He likely would be all laid back and simply say to people to show up if they wanted there were free loonies and toonies and lots of food but that they were entirely free to be otherwise engaged.

Why on earth would you "fear" that?

Phat writes:

Your idea of God is that of an optional relationship and communion.

My idea of God is the same as my idea of unicorns. And "communion" with them is nonsense.

Phat writes:

My idea is not that of an autocrat but rather of a concerned deity who knows that we need the inoculation His communion provides.

As I have pointed out before, that inoculation ain't workin' - which suggests that the "communion" ain't real.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 11:15 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19139
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 527 of 531 (872117)
02-20-2020 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
02-20-2020 12:04 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

Remember the Israelites? How they knew what their responsibilities were before God and yet they kept slipping? Worshipping other things? getting greedy for the spoils of war?

Yes, that suggests that there was no real "communion", that it was a one-way street with the priests telling the people what God wanted.

Phat writes:

Maybe even fudging a bit and putting words in Gods' mouth? Words such as "kill all of the enemies women and children...(except rape the women first)

You're making that up. As far as we know, those words came directly from God, just like, "Love thy neighbour."

Phat writes:

... you seem to stand on the idea that He is unnecessary.

There's no "seem" about it. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, He is as unnecessary as a herd of unicorns.

Phat writes:

It is about food that nourishes the soul. if you can find it without religion, more power to you...but it is my belief that you will never find it without Him, since He is the bread of life.

What if it's poison? (Jim Jones.)

Phat writes:

he is not standing in a lineup with a spaghetti monster, Buddha, and Muhammed.

He really is though.

Phat writes:

... noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing.

Jesus did. He said God would take care of you if you had faith.

And I don't care how much you malign the book. It carries more weight than your wishful thinking.

Phat writes:

You yourself don't even believe that He exists, yet you would embrace a socialist society.

I embrace a socialist society because we are an inherently social species. We are a socialist society despite the evil forces that support selfishness.

And our socialist society is necessary because there is no God to do it for us.

Phat writes:

fact is, there isn't one yet...

Have you driven on a road lately? Did you build it yourself?

Phat writes:

... anyone who sells everything and waits for their comrades to help them will end up freezing to death while they wait.

Tell it to Jesus.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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