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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8173
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 421 of 531 (871605)
02-06-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by ringo
02-06-2020 10:51 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
ringo writes:

That's too broad a definition. Racism implies that one group is superior to another group and assumed superiority results in the gathering of power to the "superior" group. You are not racist if you are powerless.

Well ok if you need to be dictionary precise about it, I'll settle for racially prejudiced instead of racist.

quote:
Racism is different from racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination. Racism involves one group having the power to carry out systematic discrimination through the institutional policies and practices of the society and by shaping the cultural beliefs and values that support those racist policies and practices.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 02-06-2020 10:51 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Theodoric, posted 02-06-2020 1:12 PM Tangle has responded
 Message 428 by ringo, posted 02-07-2020 10:52 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8173
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 425 of 531 (871616)
02-06-2020 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Theodoric
02-06-2020 1:12 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Theo writes:

No one has or could claim that people of color and other minorities can not be racially prejudiced. That would be stupid to claim.

Good. Hold that thought.

AS Hyro has done he has found examples of people of color with racial prejudice. That is radically different form racism and institutional racism as Ringo has pointed out, because of the power dynamic.

If you're going to be picky about the technical meanings of racism and racial prejudice then you need to stop using the word 'racist' in your posts unless it's exactly what you mean. If you look back over them you'll find that you use the term many times when you're talking of prejudice not the full blown apartheid racism of the definition. There's nobody on this forum that has any power over you - so long as you keep to the rules which don't appear to me to be institutionally racist.

If a random person of color expresses anti-white *racist* views

You see?

when people of the dominant group express racism or institutions of society express racist views there is a power dynamic that perpetuates, the racism we see throughout society even to this day.

Sure and that's what we need to change - and I believe it is changing but god knows, not fast enough.

Again still stunned by the idea that pointing out racism and white privilege is interpreted as a racist action. Stunning.

Then you need to think about why that is happening. You don't enjoy being randomly and indiscriminately (sic) called whatever it is people call you because of the colour of your skin alone, and neither do I. You don't know me, don't know my values, don't even know that I'm white, so why chuck deliberate insults around? It doesn't help your cause.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Theodoric, posted 02-06-2020 1:12 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8173
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 436 of 531 (871642)
02-07-2020 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by ringo
02-07-2020 11:11 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
ringo writes:

Sure, a gringo in Mexico can be a victim of racism.

Just as a demonstration of the asymmetry of values here, somehow you are comfortable saying that but might not be so comfortable saying...

“Sure, a [slang word for Mexican] in the USA can be a victim of racism” ?

Not being from your part of the world I don't know what that word might be.

The 'n' word is now completely outlawed - for good reason - I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say that now.

Some things seem ok, like me calling an American a Yank, or an Australian an Ozzie. We're ok being called whining Brits by the Ozzies because we know it's just part of the fun.

These things only become offensive when they're being used aggressively and as deliberate insults. And 'privileged white guy' is being used just like that now - almost always indiscriminately and almost always in a really nasty way against people that clearly are not racist or racially prejudiced in any way. They just happen to be white. This is going to backfire.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by ringo, posted 02-07-2020 11:11 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by ringo, posted 02-08-2020 10:53 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8173
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 515 of 531 (872030)
02-18-2020 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
02-18-2020 4:22 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Nice to see Phat back.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 4:22 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8173
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 530 of 531 (872121)
02-20-2020 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
02-20-2020 12:04 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

And I don't care what the character in the book said about giving away everything as a theme.


Woops! That character was Jesus. Doesn't that matter?

Ultimately it is true but noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing.


The 'no-one' here is you and us. And it's us that reckon it's ok not to do what the book says you must. Your god said that you should do it.

But of course no-one actually does do it, especially the established churches that bask in wealth. What I don't get is why you don't appear to think that this is a problem. You're deciding you know better than your god? You don't actually believe in him do you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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