Well, and Cuba, and North Korea, and Bolivia, and Ecuador, and Nicaragua, and Peru, etc...
Totalitarian governments are not socialism or communism. It's not what the people want. That was the problem with the USSR (and why it fell apart), and is currently the problem in Hong Kong. We also see China having trouble.
Its funny, when you ask the Nordic countries why they switched to a Socialist model some said it was because of how they saw the United States using the Veterans Affairs as a template. Now most Americans distance themselves from terms like Socialism.
Curious article from Forbes (business biased)
quote:
Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist
It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist.
Perhaps a better name for what the Nordic countries practice would be compassionate capitalism.
As the American left embraces a platform that continues to look more and more like a socialist’s dream, it is common for those on the right to counter with the example of Venezuela as the nightmare of socialism in reality. A common response from the left is that socialism (or democratic socialism) works just fine in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist.
First, it is worth noting that the Nordic counties were economic successes before they built their welfare states. Those productive economies, generating good incomes for their workers, allowed the governments to raise the tax revenue needed to pay for the social benefits. It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs.
Second, as evidence of the lack of government interference in business affairs, there is the fact that none of these countries have minimum wage laws. Unions are reasonably powerful in many industries and negotiate contracts, but the government does nothing to ensure any particular outcome from those negotiations. Workers are paid what they are worth, not based on government’s perception of what is fair.
Socialism can take the form of government controlling or interfering with free markets, nationalizing industries, and subsidizing favored ones (green energy, anyone?). The Nordic countries don’t actually do much of those things. Yes, they offer government-paid healthcare, in some cases tuition-free university educations, and rather generous social safety nets, all financed with high taxes. However, it is possible to do these things without interfering in the private sector more than required. It is allowing businesses to be productive that produces the high corporate and personal incomes that support the tax collections making the government benefits feasible. The Nordic countries are smart enough not to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
If the left insists on naming a system of generous government benefits combined with a free market democratic socialism, I cannot stop them. That seems unnecessarily confusing since the government is actually running no industries other than education (and meddling somewhat in healthcare). It certainly isn’t socialism. In fact, the only reason most such countries can afford those benefits is that their market economies are so productive they can cover the expense of the government’s generosity. Perhaps a better name for what the Nordic countries practice would be compassionate capitalism.
Or socialized capitalism, developed democratically by the government that the people vote for.
It seems to me that this is precisely what Bernie is advocating, plus minimum wage. Certainly strong unions is part of his program, which should be unnecessary in a purely socialist state.
But in any event, people forget that China is still a communist nation, albeit they changed how they do business. They knew they could never compete in a true Marxist/Leninist/Maoist style of communism in terms of production and GDP compared to capitalist societies. So they, quite cleverly actually, said if you can't beat them, join them.... sort of.
Just as Forbes describes how the Nordic countries are not really socialist countries, so too there is no real communist country. They are oligarchies and autocratic. In this they are no different from dictatorships. The nordic countries combine a capitalistic economy with a social conscience, much as we do with the social programs we have..
The architect of the Command Economy, which also is a hybrid of communism and capitalism, allowed for a semi-autonomous free market that is more or less still under the thumb of the PRC. The only problem is that they still hold very draconian views on personal rights and zero tolerance for dissent against the government. It didn't end with Tank Man. China still has a rich and storied tradition of making figures oppositional to the government to magically and mysteriously vanish... even under one of the largest surveillance states ever erected.
They are mixing capitalism with communist programs under an authoritarian government instead of a democracy.
I think Percy is right to point out that the term might as well be toxic waste in the present era. Timing is everything. In the 90's, there was a gay rights push that was suppressed. People like Hilary Clinton, knowing the pulse on the street, distanced herself from it because she didn't think Americans were ready to accept it. And she was right.
Was she? She lost critical votes in critical states, no matter that she won the popular vote in other states. Those critical states bear some looking at. The voters there that went for Trumpy were the working class workers that the Democrats had left behind. Bernie won those states in the primaries, iirc. Michigan for instance.
The same applies. Maybe socialism is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but good luck convincing the bulk of Americans that when they have so many real-world examples of why it should never take root.
And yet the Nordic countries continue to flourish, not only with a good economy, but with the highest happiness factors in the world. Money isn't happiness.
If you go to the extreme that Bernie is, the chance of beating Trump diminishes. Death by a thousand cuts, while taking much longer, is preferable than a decapitation. People are more comfortable with the devil they already know.
Bernie beats Trump in head to head national polling every time and has for 3 years. Even when he is presented as a socialist rather than a democratic. See
Message 320.
If you go to the extreme that Bernie is, ...
Bernie is not extreme, he is a return to old democrat positions. Take FDR, the most popular president in US history. Look at his
Second Bill of Rights - Wikipedia
Now is not the time to go full bore Socialist. It has too many negative connotations associated with it. Timing is everything. If your goal is to beat Trump in the next election, its gonna be hard to argue against the numbers he's putting up under an extremely capitalist structure. Jobs are up, unemployment is down, fuel prices are the lowest they've been in a long time, the economy is booming, etc.
Now is precisely the time to return to social values where people and family are more critical than money. People want honest pay for honest work. The stock market is booming, but the number of jobs that pay $15/hr or more not so much. People working multiple jobs to make ends meet depresses the unemployment numbers but doesn't improve their lives. How many americans are making better than a living wage? That's a better indicator of the health of the economy.
If the goal is beat Trump then you're going to have to find someone that can deliver similar expectations while still able to make improvements. You're going to need someone more moderate than Bernie's views to do it, more than likely.
Your going to need someone who not only has mass appeal, but someone that inspires people to run for other positions, from Dog Catcher to Senator. The only one I see doing that is Bernie, example AOC.
AOC and the "squad" is one of the best things to happen to the Democratic party, because they knocked the Dems on their haunches and revitalized the party. She was inspired by Bernie to run.
We don't need to just beat Trump, we need to beat the GOP, and the only candidate I see with the widespread support to do that is Bernie.
Curiously, I also think he is best suited to unite the people after the divisiveness of trump. His ability to work with both sides to get bills passed is a good indicator.
Let's see how he does in Nevada today.
Enjoy
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