Testing The Christian Apologists

And the Soviet Union payed the lions share of military "protection" for Poland, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania.... What they were "protecting" was their own interests. Because you live on the globe. Everything that happens on the globe effects you.

That's an extremely bad analogy. You protect the King? Did you think at all before you posted that?

In this context, protecting the King means protecting our way of life and not getting run around by the globalists who demand we pay the bill.

Say we were talking about a city block. 50 people lived on this block. They had a neighborhood watch, a committee to throw gatherings and to pay for a school crossing guard, etc. And say that the block had several residents wealthier than the rest.You were the aging fat guy on the corner. years ago you were extremely wealthy, but age and poor health have taken their toll. Still, you have a larger bank account than the others. Is it fair for you to contribute more towards the block charter dues than any other household? If you say yes, you are truly a Marxist. Fact is, every household contributes the same amount. Period.This whole idea of stolen meals applies at best to the former residents of the block...mainly our parents...who left us the house. We are in no way responsible for whatever inequities they perpetuated on the block. We are only responsible for our current representation and contribution to block welfare.

That doesn't make any sense. You're talking about protecting yourself. No chess piece does that. They are all interdependent.

Of course. Nonsense. Learn what Marxism is.You're the one who is worried about class struggle. You're more of a Marxist than I am. That's not a fact. Have you ever heard of progressive taxation? Most attempts at "fair" taxation are on the principle of "from each according to his ability". Not at all. It applies to the foreign workers that we and our parents exploited. We are responsible for fixing the damage we did in the past and for not continuing to do damage in the future.

So what if the old guy at the end of the block no longer works? He no longer has an income. Are you going to tax him based on the size of his retirement account? And lets say that years ago, our parents hired workers to mow the lawn and paid them cheap wages. They live in another county. Are you seriously suggesting that it is up to the retired old man at the end of the block to pay reparations from his friggin retirement account to these workers which his parents once exploited? What would happen if he was socked with every bill that the system could attempt to hoist on him? What if his retirement account was depleted as a result? Now the shoe is on the other foot and he is the one in need. What would you then suggest?Also in this day and age, "from each according to his ability" should be also tied to population. Unless a country is extremely poor, they should contribute based on how many of them are affected. China should pay more than the US. The reason is that the math of economics places an undue strain on our working class. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

We've been over this before. let me reiterate. There are basically 4 classes. 1) The top 5%. They own nearly everything. It gets passed down from generation to generation in perpetuity. Trump helped them secure even greater riches due to a tax cut earlier in his term.
2) The upper-middle class. They make 250,000.00 a year on average. Trump lowered their taxes also. In my mind they should be helping pay back the bill, as well as the top group...but you have said before that you never worry about them.Instead, you want to pick on
3) The middle class. They earn under 80,000.00 a year. (Personally, my gross is around $30,000.00 a year. I am below them also but I am trying to become one of them. I really want to own my home rather than be a slave to rent.
The apologists are also in this group, and they support a prosperity gospel. We all look at God and ask what's wrong with having a house? Or a car that runs 90% of the time?4) the lower middle class and the unemployed poor. This is where I would end up if I took Jesus at His word in the book, even though He was not specifically addressing me. You would argue that he was. If so, it appears that Jesus desires all of us to be in the lowest economic quadrant.This is the group that sanders claims should all get free health care and free education. This is all well and good EXCEPT that in order to fund such social programs, pay higher taxes, and pay off any loans that we the people have had, the 3rd quadrant gets hit so hard that they drop down to the 4th quadrant. And you see no problem with this? Yes, I am very aware of class struggle. And I will go with carl over your Jesus of the book character. he is unrealistic towards modern economic need and reality. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Look at what Bernie Sanders has actually said a written rather than what the Medicine Men are selling. Show evidence that that is what Sanders advocates or even if that is what would happen.Look at EVERY other modern nation Phat.Compare the quality of life.Compare the life expectancy.Compare the health care costs.Compare the wealth disparity.Compare the crime rates.The reality Phat is others seem able to provide for all, to still have richer and poorer and to make everything better for their middle class.We choose not to follow their example and so we choose to make the middle class suffer.We do not have to choose that yet we do.

Well if what you say is correct, we need to get the word out. I would be interested in seeing the actual facts. Why has nobody presented them clearly? Why do the populists use propaganda to call them out as fake, when in reality these facts would help the working class rather than burden it?

Why haven't you already checked the facts; they are readily available?The answer really is that simple Phat. It's easier to believe the Medicine Men and know that health and wealth are all coming to you as long as you join the club.Being well informed is work. Swallowing propaganda is easy.

But not every club has propaganda, do they? What of your club---The Episcopal Church? Do they have a medicine man? Do they sell the idea that the club is a necessity?I am not a fan of Populism or of Trump, but I have threatened to join them in desperation if my world falls apart. I thought about why I felt that way and why ringo makes me so angry. Finally, I realized that a big part of my belief is the belief that God and I have a bit of a supernatural connection.I can and do help people now. I can and will vote for appropriate solutions for the future and not for the Populism that seems to have swept up most of my evangelical friends into a kind of unrealistic dream state. They are in a Coma, as far as I can see. They think a bit similar to how Faith thinks---that the Left is leading the country into the trap of Globalism and of being simply another team player beholden to higher secular authority. I can see how this may cause concern, but I am not ready to call out anyone with a Leftwing ideology as evil. I see both good and evil in both sides of the political spectrum.But as for my belief, it is very important to me and for me that there is a supernatural God at work. If God was not interactive, potentially helpful, or available and if I was told that Christianity was nothing more than a choice to commit to the hard work with no promises, I think I would be very uncomfortable with it.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Actually "No!" Phat. The Episcopal church does not say it is a necessity or the right path or the TRUE religion or that it has the answers. In fact it is very active in the Ecumenical movement. Priest of other faiths are accepted as Episcopal priests and anyone baptized is welcome to take communion and in the National Cathedral (an Episcopal Church) there are regular learning sessions when those of other faiths are invited in to present their belief systems. The school I went to is Episcopalian but open to anyone regardless or their beliefs or non-beliefs.

Irrelevant. He is/should be taxed based on his ability to pay. Are you seriously suggesting that he shouldn't? Doesn't he want to clear his parents' good name? To that extent, at least, we are responsible for the sins of our fathers. "To each according to his need." "Each" is an individual word. "Each" one in China should pay what he can and "each" one in the US should pay what he can. The sum od eaches paid by each country is irrelevant. But it's the middle class (you) that's complaining about being strained.

Noooo. I've said that the working class should pay the bulk of the taxes - and that their income should be brought up to where they can afford to do so. That is where you would end up if you didn't trust God. Remember Elijah and the widow? You have never been able to back up that claim. Well, He wants you to be willing to be in the lowest economic quadrant. I don't know what Sanders says but everybody should get free healthcare and education. Even if you don't care about ordinary human decency, a healthy workforce is essential and an educated electorate is essential. I don't know if your prediction has any merit but no, I see no problem with that. Why would I see a problem with equality?I've been in your "4th quadrant" all my life. I have never made more than $25,000 (Canadian) in one year and I'm not much above half that now. And there are a lot of people who are worse off than me. But it isn't a struggle. I'm going to hold you to that. From now on, you'd better not use the name of "Jesus" again. Say you believe in "Carl", or the voices in your head.