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Author Topic:   Biblical Support for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 211 of 330 (872157)
02-21-2020 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Hyroglyphx
02-19-2020 11:26 PM


Re: A Digression to Genesis 6 and then back to Revelation
I hope this will end my answer to that post.
Just to finish the thought about dinosaurs, there isn't anything clear in the Bible about them but they were certainly giants themselves and would have been a great danger to humanity, and were pretty much wiped out by the Flood, suggesting judgment related to them too. Even whatever of them were on the ark didn't live very long after the Flood.
Do angels have DNA? If they begat children they would have wouldn't they? Questions, questions. Usually when I pray for an answer to a question concerning scripture God gives me the answer in a day or so. So I'm praying.
Would it matter either way? Everyone likes a good mystery but would knowing the answer or not knowing the answer effect your salvation?
My salvation isn't the only thing I get out of scripture. Right now I'm studying all the prophecies. I'm not going to have to go through the Tribulation but I want to know as much about it as possible. Mostly because I have a lot of people in my life who WILL go through it as they continue to resist the gospel. It's going to be hard enough to endure even if you expect it and know pretty much what is to happen, but without even that much knowledge people are going to die of fright. I hope the people I care about will be saved then if they won't be now, but it's certainly the hard way. In any case, knowing all we can about what scripture says is really our main job.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 212 of 330 (872196)
02-22-2020 9:42 AM


First half of the seven-year Tribulation period 6th chapter of Revelation, six seals
I keep being surprised that I am no longer confused by the strangest scriptures such as the Book of Revelation. I 've often felt I'll just never get it, the imagery is too strange, but now it's starting to make sense. Even getting clearer with this thread on the subject. PaulK will never see it my way I suppose but the more I hear from some teachers on the subject, and read through the book, the clearer it gets.
I've certainly heard presentations of this point of view over the years but I never had any certainty about the truth of them. The only way it really starts to make sense is if you have some grasp of the WHOLE Bible and particularly the specific passages in both Old and New Testaments that describe the same things found in the book of Revelation, and there are quite a few of them. John MacArthur is particularly good at pointing them out. Many passages for instance that describe God's judgments in terms of the order of the Four Horsemen of the first four seals, false peace and deception ("Take heed ye be not deceived for False Christs shall come...") war ("You will hear of wars and rumors of war"), famine, pestilences and wild beasts of the earth. Both Old and New Testaments have passages that describe this order of things in God's judgments. Scripture has pointed to this final Day of the Lord in many ways over the millennia.
Revelation 6 covers the opening of the first six seals of the scroll which is described by some teachers as the "title deed to the Earth." It belonged to Satan until Jesus died on the Cross and won it back. He now has the authority to open it and unleash the final judgments of God on the Earth.
MacArthur calls the first seals the "birth pangs," which I think include the first six seals and cover the first half or three and a half years of the Tribulation period, most of it through humanity. The second half is the Great Tribulation proper or the Day of the Lord in which God Himself directly pours out His wrath on the Earth. This outpouring of natural disasters begins in the opening of the sixth seal but that seems to be regarded more as signs of what is coming than the Great Tribulation proper. At least that is how I read it.
  1. First seal is a white horse whose rider carries a bow but no arrows, understood to represent a false peace through religious deception.
  2. Second seal is a red horse whose rider is given a great sword, which "takes peace from the Earth" through war and murders.
  3. Third seal is black horse whose rider carries a scale for weighing food, representing famine
  4. Fourth seal is a pale greenish horse whose rider is Death, closely followed by Hell, which represents disease by pestilences and the beasts of the earth.
  5. Fifth seal shows those killed for their belief in God crying out for God's vengeance on their behalf. These show the persecutions that are ongoing. they are told to rest until they are joined by the rest of those yet to be martyred. Presumably the vengeance will come in the Great Tribulation as part of the judgments of the seventh seal.
  6. Sixth seal shows dramatic shakings of the earth and heavens as "stars" fall from heaven, sun goes black, moon appears as blood etc. All images found in other parts of scripture, signs related to the Tribulation before the second coming of Christ. Then we see the kings, leaders, other great men of the earth hiding in the mountains and asking the rocks to fall on them:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
So the first six seals are all described in the sixth chapter of Revelation. John MacArthur thinks the midpoint of the Tribulation period comes with the fifth seal of those martyred by persecution, but I think this last sentence of the sixth seal, about how "the great day of his wrath is come" pretty clearly indicates that the last half of the Tribulation or the Great Tribulation doesn't begin until the opening of the seventh seal.
MacArthur refers to the first seals as "birth pangs" before the birth which will be the return of Jesus, an often-repeated reference to the time of the end throughout scripture. So it's not the GREAT Tribulation though it is the first part of the seven year Tribulation period. I think it's pretty clear that the Great Tribulation starts with the opening of the seventh seal which follows the six seals of Chapter 6.
But first there is Chapter 7 which shows 144,000 men of the twelve tribes of israel being sealed by God for what is understood to be the role of worldwide preaching of the gospel. Then we see a "great multitude" of people in heaven praising God, who are "those who came out of Great Tribulation." If, as we understand it, the Church has been raptured before the start of all these events of the seven-year Tribulation then these are a different group of believers, who have become believers during this time.
And then in Chapter 8 the seventh seal is opened and the Great Tribulation begins.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 213 of 330 (872222)
02-23-2020 4:42 AM


Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
The question came up earlier in this discussion who it is who will reign with Christ in the Millennial Kingdom. PaulK said only the martyrs mentioned in Revelation who come out of the Great Tribulation. I've always heard the Church will rule and reign with Christ so I wanted to find evidence for that. I found plenty of statements about it, but not the scripture references for evidence of it. Those said to reign are the Church, The Old Testament saints AND the martyrs of the Great Tribulation. Finally I found John MacArthur giving the scriptural evidence in this teaching on Revelation 20. He lists them from about 55:00, but if you want to hear the scriptures behind the list start about 48:00.
.
.
.

.
.
So as I say in the previous post I am finally getting a handle on the Book of Revelation. I now understand that this is because the Pre-Tribulation Rapture point of view is so logical and orderly. It requires reading Revelation simply, chronologically, as the unfolding of one event after another.
I'd managed to get pretty confused by trying to understand some of the other systems of interpretation of the end times scriptures, such as Amillennialism which is the interpretation favored by the Reformed churches. Since I appreciate the Reformed theology over all the others I assumed that Amillennialism would be the best view of eschatology. But I had to reject it, I forget all the reasons why, it just wasn't making any sense.
That didn't make the Pre-Trib Rapture Premillennial view the obvious choice by any means. I just kept having all kinds of questions about it, some of which I've mentioned on this thread. It's taken this study we're into now, and the fact that there are many MacArthur teachings available at You Tube that weren't there until recently, for me to finally get a handle on it. I now see the Pre Trib view as the only sensible reading of the scripture. It is still necessary to struggle with the odd imagery of Revelation but that's mostly a matter of starting to get an understanding of how it's used in the rest of scripture. Otherwise, just reading it in order, without allegorizing or spiritualizing any of it, just reading it straight, it is beginning to come together.
I skipped over the Great Tribulation to the Millennial Kingdom because that was particularly confusing to me. After hearing a few talks on it that too is falling into place. I don't have a grip on all the events but the order of things is clear now:
First, the Church is raptured to heaven, and the Tribulation begins. Does it begin with a covenant made between the Anticrhist and Israel? Well I keep hearing that but it isn't in the Book of Revelation as far as I know, so that's something I still have to sort through.
Then, after the Great Tribulation which lasts seven years, kills a lot of people and rearranges a lot of the Earth, Christ returns at the Second Coming and the Church comes with him.
All the saints of the Old Testament and the Great Tribulation are resurrected and now have glorified bodies, join with the Church, and the Millennial Kingdom begins, with all the saints ruling with Christ over a renovated Earth.
Satan is bound for a thousand years. Those who are still alive after the Tribulation are still in their normal human bodies and will populate the Earth, and it will be a perfect Earth, the recovery of Eden. MacArthur describes that in the above talk.
But although the people are believers they are also fallen, not having glorified bodies, and over time some of their offspring become rebels against Christ. At the end of the Millennium Satan is released for the purpose of leading them into the final rebellion. Christ conquers and finally the Eternal Kingdom comes.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by PaulK, posted 02-23-2020 4:53 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 214 of 330 (872223)
02-23-2020 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
02-23-2020 4:42 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Revelation 20 is quite clear on the point., as I’ve shown. Maybe I’ll look to see if MacArthur has come up with genuine contradictions, but I doubt it. Someone who claims that John’s entry into heaven in Revelation 4 is the Rapture is not someone to be taken seriously.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 4:42 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 5:18 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 215 of 330 (872224)
02-23-2020 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by PaulK
02-23-2020 4:53 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
There is nothing to contradict the reign of the martyrs, only other bodies of saints to add to their number, which are the Church and the Old Testament believers and one other group mentioned that I don't recognize. The point is it's the SAINTS, those who are believers who are resurrected into their final glorified bodies, who rule and reignwith Christ.
Yes, if you keep taking it out of context John's being called up to heaven doesn't seem very convincing as a representation of the Rapture. I thought it untenable too at first. I've had to grow into this whole system and now it's the only thing it COULD mean.
Also, MacArthur is far from the only one to hold this view. I've also been listening to a Gil Rugh at Sermon Audio on the Pre Trib Rapture and he's very good too. There are others but I'm trying to find the clearest presentations for now. MacArthur is a very gifted teacher and is VERY clear even when I don't agree with things he says.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by PaulK, posted 02-23-2020 4:53 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 217 by Coragyps, posted 02-23-2020 11:58 AM Faith has replied
 Message 218 by Phat, posted 02-23-2020 1:03 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 216 of 330 (872225)
02-23-2020 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
02-23-2020 5:18 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
quote:
Yes, if you keep taking it out of context John's being called up to heaven doesn't seem very convincing as a representation of the Rapture.
It’s not even slightly convincing taken in context either.
quote:
I thought it untenable too at first. I've had to grow into this whole system and now it's the only thing it COULD mean.
Obviously it can simply be a part of the framing - John goes up to Heaven in his vision to see what will happen there. That is the natural reading and the only aspect that can even possibly resemble the Rapture is John - one person alone going up to Heaven. And the Rapture quite likely isn’t even intended to refer to ascending to Heaven.
Noe if you had a scheme of interpretation - rules for interpreting Revelation - that made sense - then you might have a point. But forcing everything into the mould of the pre-Trib Rapture is not a sensible scheme.
quote:
Also, MacArthur is far from the only one to hold this view. I've also been listening to a Gil Rugh at Sermon Audio on the Pre Trib Rapture and he's very good too. There are others but I'm trying to find the clearest presentations for now. MacArthur is a very gifted teacher and is VERY clear even when I don't agree with things he says.
It doesn’t matter how many people fall for silly nonsense, it’s still silly nonsense.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 217 of 330 (872233)
02-23-2020 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
02-23-2020 5:18 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Please note that Paula White, spiritual advisor to our president, recently paid a visit to God up at His place in heaven and saw His face, though indistinctly. The Bible verse does say no MAN shall look at God’s face and survive, after all.
Maybe this is the start of the Rapture?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 5:18 AM Faith has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 218 of 330 (872234)
02-23-2020 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
02-23-2020 5:18 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Faith writes:
The point is it's the SAINTS, those who are believers who are resurrected into their final glorified bodies, who rule and reign with Christ.
Well, that leaves you and me out.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 5:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 5:48 PM Phat has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 219 of 330 (872261)
02-23-2020 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Coragyps
02-23-2020 11:58 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
I really wish some true Christians would tell Trump he's got the wrong "Christians" advising him. Not only is she out of line since there is not to be a female pastor of a church but Paula White teaches the false Prosperity Gospel and is part of the theologically false charismatic movement that has such false visions as she says she had.. I can hope that she also manages to get across the true gospel and I can hope that overrides her glaring false teaching but all I can do is hope and it may be that she's hopelessly up to her ears in the Great Apostasy of the last days.
AbE: I don't know how this will all play out at the Rapture. Will she be in the Rapture because somehow she DOES believe the true gospel and that will override her errors, or what? I often doubt my own salvation because of my sinfulness but I hold out hope that God will grant me "repentance unto salvation" and I know I've been born again too. Still I'm not pure and I know it and worry. But can a false teacher be saved?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 220 of 330 (872262)
02-23-2020 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Phat
02-23-2020 1:03 PM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Well, that leaves you and me out.
True. Well at least maybe we can get the gospel across to some of the people we love, and maybe we will be mercifully beheaded rather than have to starve to death (although I really wouldn't mind anything that causes me to lose weight)_.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Phat, posted 02-23-2020 1:03 PM Phat has replied

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 Message 221 by Phat, posted 02-24-2020 3:00 AM Faith has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 221 of 330 (872265)
02-24-2020 3:00 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
02-23-2020 5:48 PM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Do you really think it will all happen that fast? Im 60 now...and you are older than I by a couple of years...and so far I see no evidence of a military police state that wants to limit the free speech of Christians. I used to think the so-called last Days would come by 2003 at the latest. Now, that is over 17 years ago. Of course, pertaining to the Rapture, it could happen at any moment despite tangles assurance that it won't ever happen. A Pre Trib rapture makes sense, but such a Rapture would be cut and dried. Most people would get left behind. Sometimes I wonder if ringo has a point in that Jesus expects us to give 100% and hold nothing back. He is too liberal and socialist for me, but I am not a Right Wing guy either.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 02-23-2020 5:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by PaulK, posted 02-24-2020 7:47 AM Phat has replied
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 02-24-2020 8:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 224 by ringo, posted 02-24-2020 11:21 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 222 of 330 (872267)
02-24-2020 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
02-24-2020 3:00 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
I wouldn’t worry. Even by the dodgy interpretations favoured by Faith and her like you still need the Jewish Temple to be rebuilt and the Roman Empire to come back. Neither is likely in the immediate future. The second isn’t likely at all (maybe if Italy goes Fascist again, but even that’s only a start).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 02-24-2020 3:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Phat, posted 02-24-2020 3:47 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 223 of 330 (872268)
02-24-2020 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
02-24-2020 3:00 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Do you really think it will all happen that fast? Im 60 now...and you are older than I by a couple of years...
Seventeen years to be exact, almost eighteen. I have a stepson your age. No, I don't know when it's going to happen, but I'm amazed I've lived this long and I could very well live much longer too. I could be wrong but I do think I could very well be part of the Rapture.
... and so far I see no evidence of a military police state that wants to limit the free speech of Christians.
Why would you be expecting that sort of thing? I'm not.
I used to think the so-called last Days would come by 2003 at the latest. Now, that is over 17 years ago. Of course, pertaining to the Rapture, it could happen at any moment despite tangles assurance that it won't ever happen. A Pre Trib rapture makes sense, but such a Rapture would be cut and dried. Most people would get left behind.
According to Revelation, though, uncountable millions are going to be saved during the Tribulation period. The hard way for sure, since many will be martyred and others will be killed by natural disasters and other things, but saved nevertheless. Some number of people will also believe and not be killed. They'll get to go alive into the Millennium, ruled over by Christ for a thousand years. Pretty much a restoration of conditions in Eden, with Satan out of the way and the best that fallen nature can do will be given free course.
I only recently got as convinced as I am of the Pre Trib Rapture interpretation. I've been in suspension about parts of it for a long time, and it's really JohnMacArthur's series on Revelation at You Tube that has resolved a lot of my doubts.
That' hasn't stopped me from expecting the Rapture soon anyway, even without understanding all the reasoning about it. We just keep seeing things getting worse, or a lot of people I know do, maybe you don't. Just generally worse in the world from a Christian point of view. Oh we're having prosperity, I think Trump is a good thing for America, but that doesn't mean I think things in general are getting better in any way that would put off the Rapture.
And the Rapture is the beginning of the end, followed by the Day of the Lord. Even if there is a pause between Rapture and Tribulation, it isn't going to be a long pause, maybe weeks, maybe not even that long. Supposedly there is to be a covenant of peace made between the man called the Antichrist and Israel, but that isn't in Revelation and I'm going to have to hear more to see how that fits in.
And then we're supposed to have a peaceful prosperous time for a while too. Can't be too long since the whole Tribulation period is only going to last seven years and the GREAT Tribultion which is the outpouring of God's wrath, won't start until the middle of it, at three and a half years. After that peace which is represented by the white horse of Revelation 6, we have the red horse which is war, then the black horse which is famine and then the greenish horse which is death by things like pestilences. And all that is to happen during the first three and a half years. Even though I'm getting a much better idea of all these things it's still sketchy and I'll have to go through it all again if I want to get more specifics.
I have no idea when all this will begin, when the Rapture will occur, we're not supposed to know, but it feels close, that's all. It's felt close for many years and it keeps feeling closer.
Sometimes I wonder if ringo has a point in that Jesus expects us to give 100% and hold nothing back.
I think those scriptures are for specific people in specific situations, not general teachings for all believers. If you have no natural source of income then you have to be prepared to put all your trust in God every minute to sustain you, and you have to be very sure that God is calling you to that extreme way of life. Remember the other scripture, "God loves a cheerful giver." There's no point in giving all your money away if you aren't completely happy about it, completely certain it's the life you are prepared to live. That would put you in the wrong too. Becoming dependent on others is certainly not what Jesus meant.
AbE: The only thing we are all specifically called to is the tithe, and some churches cdispute that we are called to that since it's not mentioned in the New Testament.
He is too liberal and socialist for me, but I am not a Right Wing guy either.
Doesn't seem to me it has anything to do with the political spectrum, it's a matter of understanding what the scripture really means and if you listen too much to ringo or jar you're going to get yourself really confused. Neither of them knows what he's talking about. IMHO.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 224 of 330 (872286)
02-24-2020 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
02-24-2020 3:00 AM


Re: Who Reigns With Christ in the Millennial Kingdom?
Phat writes:
...so far I see no evidence of a military police state that wants to limit the free speech of Christians.
If there is one, it will be voted in by Christians. *cough* Trump *cough*

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 225 of 330 (872290)
02-24-2020 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by PaulK
02-24-2020 7:47 AM


Dr.Ron Rhodes Weighs In
Dr.Ron Rhodes is another of the old-time apologetic "prophecy experts" that weighs in.
Dr.Rhodes On The Jewish Voice
He has a new book out. Critics such as jar will point out that all this man basically does is write and sell books and that he has found his niche selling to Biblical Christians, but jar never believed this stuff anyway. I grew up reading these types of books even before I was saved, so they are not totally dismissed by me.
Rhodes latest book, End Times Super Trends
Ron Rhodes writes:
...If we’re seeing signs today that indicate that the second coming is not far off, that means that the rapture is even nearer. There are hundreds of signs pointing to the second coming, yet there is not a single sign or prophecy that must be fulfilled before the rapture takes place. It’s imminent and that means it could literally happen at any moment.
What Ron has done through his latest book is to focus on the big issues that are setting the stage for the tribulation period. This would include things like the rise of alternative religions, the apostasy within the church, the reality that our world is going cashless, the possibility of America weakening in the end-times, the dissolution and redefining of the family, globalism, the Middle East conflict, the rising tide against Christians, moral decline, the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, the loss of religious freedom, and more.
Now you must admit that this author knows the likelihood that his target audience, Biblical Christians, will buy this book like cotton candy. He too will have to stand before God someday and answer as to why it is he sold a million books to hungry gullible people. Missler did the same thing, as did MacArthur. Unlike jar, however, I don't necessarily see any proof that these people are in any way misled. They have decent arguments.
Rhodes talks of the Rapture in his book.
quote:
Live your life as though the rapture could happen today, but plan your life as if you will be here for your entire life expectancy. That way you are prepared for both time and eternity.
Ithink that Dr.Rhodes favors the pre trib interpretation.
RonRhodes writes:
Which view of the Rapture is correct? Some say it happen before the Tribulation, in the middle of the Tribulation, before what’s deemed the wrath of God near the end of the Tribulation, or at the very end of the Tribulation. I believe that the Church is going to be raptured before the Tribulation period. It makes good sense for a number of reasons.
First of all, if you examine all of the Old Testament prophecies that deal with the Tribulation, the Church is never mentioned once. If you look at all the New Testament prophecies that deal with the Tribulation, the Church is not mentioned once.
In 1 Thessalonians 1:9 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9, we are told that the Church will be delivered from the wrath to come. Now there are a couple points to make there. The wrath to come is not just general wrath that we all experience. Rather, it is a specific period of wrath. It is the wrath to come which we Christians are to be delivered from it.
The Greek word for delivered there means to be snatched away from. The Church is promised to be snatched away from the wrath to come. To me, that goes right along with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 where it talks about how Christians are going to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Christians are going to be snatched up to meet the Lord in the air.
Just think about that for a minute. Doesn’t the Lord have a long pattern of delivering His people before judgment falls? God delivered Noah before the Flood fell. He caught Enoch up to His side before the Flood fell. The spies were out of Jericho before the judgment fell on Jericho. Lot was out of Sodom before judgment fell on Sodom. I could go on and on. That is in keeping with who God is. And so, God is going to rescue the Church before His judgment falls upon the world.
What if the "church" isnt who we think it is, however? What if ringo is right and that most of us have failed to trust God enough to give it all up? Dr.Ron Rhodes certainly has money. Comments?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by PaulK, posted 02-24-2020 7:47 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by PaulK, posted 02-24-2020 4:34 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 02-24-2020 8:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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