Biblical Support for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture

And pretty amazing how often you do it, Faith. Evolution is pretty damn obvious.

I didn't use the bird example as anything other than a footnote, so of course you make the big deal out of that. But what I consider to be signs are the calculation of the 666 and the date and time of Francis' election. Oh and the lightning hitting St. Peter's when Ratzinger left has a portentous feel to it. The birds just came along to confirm things.

I hope at least you find it entertaining.

Phat, John MacArthur might very well honestly believe in the product he tries to sell. But then that might well be true too of the Medicine Man on the back step of his wagon.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? MacArthur is explaining a particular book of the Bible. A book I doubt you've even read, and certainly don't understand in the slightest anyway.

Yes Faith, I do have an idea of what I am talking about and I actually can and have read the Bible and firmly believe the Bible says what is actually written in the Bible.

The point of mentioning the bird thing was that your claim of objectivity was greatly compromised. The others are also subjective in both their significance and meaning. The announcement of the election at 19:06 could easily be a coincidence, unlucky 13 is pure superstition and I’m sure that there have been lightning strikes at St Peter’s before and after.Let us also note that Francis has been Pope for nearly 7 years without anything happening. As you say he’s old now, and could die or retire in a few years.And just one more question. What makes you think that a Pope could possibly use 666 as a personal symbol? That is the main Biblical significance of the number - and even you must admit that Catholicism is Christian to the point where that is quite unthinkable.

Which is of course a laughable evasion.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh nonsense. The attack by the birds was also an objective fact, and being objective facts is all I claimed for them all, in contrast with Nostradamus' vague and ambiguous stuff. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Oh nonsense. The attack by the birds was also an objective fact, and being objective facts is all I claimed for them all, in contrast with Nostradamus' vague and ambiguous stuff.

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The attack was objective fact. But that really doesn’t help you, since it is only subjectivity that assigns any importance to it at all - other than as an indication releasing white doves in Rome is a bad idea. That wasn’t the first problem.

You would make "subjective" any interpretation of anything, which makes the word meaningless. An interpretation of a book of the Bible is subjective, but there has to be a correct interpretation nevertheless. Same with anything symbolic, or anything that must be interpreted. You accomplish nothing by calling it "subjective." And the interpretations I've put on all these events aren't at all squishy either, there just aren't any other ways to interpret these things, except of course to pretend they aren't symbolic at all, which would be the choice of most here I suppose.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

For me this has become my own personal study of the Book of Revelation so there may be no point in continuing it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't waste your time by starting topics and then refusing to discuss them. I answer almost all of your posts.

If all you seek in biased confirmation then go to the Apologists that will confirm your desires. Coming here and expecting rational people to by into absolute absurdities that have been show to be wrong consistently over thousands of years will not get you the answers you desire.

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You would make "subjective" any interpretation of anything, which makes the word meaningless

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I wouldn’t go quite that far - although others would - but interpretation often does involve a degree of subjectivity. And your interpretation of the birds involves a good deal of subjectivity. And no, saying that doesn’t make the word meaningless. That’s just another absurdity that you made up.

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An interpretation of a book of the Bible is subjective, but there has to be a correct interpretation nevertheless. Same with anything symbolic, or anything that must be interpreted.

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Unless there is an objective way of determining which interpretation is correct - or at the least a very strong case - the subjectivity is inescapable. And in this case we cannot even objectively say that it was a sign or that it had any connection to the Tribulation at all.

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You accomplish nothing by calling it "subjective."

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On the contrary, I show that your claim of objectivity is meaningless.

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And the interpretations I've put on all these events aren't at all squishy either, there just aren't any other ways to interpret these things, except of course to pretend they aren't symbolic at all, which would be the choice of most here I suppose.

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Your interpretation of the birds is certainly squishy if it goes anywhere beyond the wars of the last few years - and you did by citing it as evidence that Pope Francis is the AntiChrist. And it is quite reasonable to conclude that your signs aren’t signs. Lightning strikes and bird attacks have happened before and will happen again without any clear meaning to be found. You offer mere superstition - much of it pagan. And if you want another example of subjectivity, choosing to read 19:06 as 6:66 pm is a subjective choice. It is not objectively correct - indeed it is an incorrect way of writing the time.