Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9071 total)
76 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (1 member, 75 visitors)
Newest Member: FossilDiscovery
Upcoming Birthdays: Percy
Post Volume: Total: 893,112 Year: 4,224/6,534 Month: 438/900 Week: 144/150 Day: 14/23 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Covid-19 and religion.
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 9 of 143 (872674)
03-02-2020 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
02-29-2020 7:37 PM


Re: The Sociological Implications Of Corvid-19
A health professional (an EMT, as I seem to recall) called in with advice.

She advised that for cleaning surfaces, a bleach solution works best. Of course, bleach would not be a good option for sanitizing skin.

She advised against over-using alcohol-based sanitizers. Alcohol will dry out and crack the skin, making it more porous, especially when over-used. Hospitals have sanitizer dispensers by every door and, as I recall, it didn't seem to be alcohol-based (a friend was hospitalized this past year). I just sent a Facebook message to my daughter-in-law, a physician's assistant, asking her what they're using. Those with contacts in the medical profession (except for faith healers) should also inquire.

Similarly, alcohol consumption should be reduced, since it has a similar drying and cracking effect on those linings. Plus it reduces the body's general health and resistance.

For cleaning hands, she recommended foam which you can prepare yourself, though I don't know from what.

Also, take time washing your hands. At least 20 seconds. Sing (silently, please) "Happy Birthday" to yourself two or three times. Make a habit of it. If you choose the "Alphabet Song" instead, be sure to say each and every letter separately and distinctly.

When you have to sneeze or cough (eg, it suddenly comes upon you), don't do it into your elbow. Instead, bring your clothing's neckline up over your mouth and nose to catch it. Myself as a member of the dance community, I always use my handkerchief or, if I'm eating, a paper napkin (which I promptly crumple up and dispose of).

And, of course, stop touching your face. That's a habit and she had advice about habits, in particular how long it takes to break a habit. Again from the dance community, I've learned to avoid touching my mouth, nose, or eyes with my hands.

There's a standard joke that when we go to use the convenience* (AKA rest room, john, jane) we should be washing our hands before rather than after, since we know where it's been but not where our hands have been. Practically speaking, washing hands both before and after would be a good idea.

Individually, we should seek advice from medical professionals, not from politicians.


FOOTNOTE *
The British tend to call public toilets the "convenience". That was the basis of a one-line joke in the 1967 British WWII comedy/farce, "How I Won the War", with Michael Crawford (yes, the Phantom of the Opera star, though when he was still doing more comedy) and Beatle John Lennon. Crawford plays an inept lieutenant (of many other inept officers -- I'll spare you of the details).

Crawford is waiting to see the general or colonel who is on the can -- literally a 5-gallon can with a toilet seat atop it and surrounded by partitions for privacy even though the entire affair is outdoors in the open (this was set in North Africa and that was exactly what the accommodations were like, though without the partitions). When the senior officer exits, Crawford reports smartly: "Leftenant Goodbody at your convenience, Sir!"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 02-29-2020 7:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by caffeine, posted 03-02-2020 5:52 AM dwise1 has taken no action
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-02-2020 9:51 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 10 of 143 (872675)
03-02-2020 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals
03-01-2020 11:23 PM


Re: "Takes a licking and keeps on ticking."
Who is going to do the write-ups for their Darwin Awards?

Edited by dwise1, : Added link to explain Darwin Awards


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-01-2020 11:23 PM AnswersInGenitals has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 23 of 143 (872731)
03-03-2020 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
03-02-2020 9:51 AM


Re: The Sociological Implications Of Corvid-19
The drying effect of alcohol is a problem but ...

Yes, additional treatment would be needed and is provided.

I asked my daughter-in-law, a physician's assistant, about what is used in hospitals:

quote:
For health care settings, alcohol concentration to kill bacteria is 70% to 95% so there is ethyl alcohol as well as emollients and moisturizers to help improve skin health. Also no fragrances or dyes help lessen irritation.

Products with alcohol concentrations as low as 40% are available in stores so you can use those to also avoid drying of the hands.


No product names, but some ingredient ideas of what to look for.

Of course, there'a also the factor of these products becoming unavailable (if not already) because of the panic starting to set in. Reports from multiple CostCo stores are that they're swamped with customers buying up all the food and supplies they can. My niece in the Seattle area reports emptied shelves in Target and other stores; eg, " there were some odd things gone like all the Lunchables LOL".

And everything or anything that could serve as a face mask has been sold out; a construction company owner/foreman tried to buy dust masks for his employees and every store was sold out. Early reports of how the economy and the stock market would be affected pointed out that just about the only stock that was up was 3M, who produce face masks and filters.

Apparently, people think that they can hole up in their homes for months. The Mormons already have a leg up on them on that with the doctrinal requirement to have enough supplies to survive for two years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 03-02-2020 9:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 2:57 PM dwise1 has taken no action
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 03-03-2020 3:22 PM dwise1 has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 44 of 143 (873171)
03-10-2020 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
03-10-2020 4:56 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
Basic contingency planning, which is endemic in the military.

First level is Operational Risk Management (ORM). You figure what could possibly go wrong and you plan for it (eg, at a unit athletic event how to keep everybody properly hydrated and how to get EMT out there when needed).

Second level goes beyond that.

What is needed is complete truthfulness at the highest levels. Trump is not providing that. In his desperation to preserve the stock market (ie, the fake economy) he is spreading lies which will cost even more lifes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 03-10-2020 4:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 03-10-2020 10:50 PM dwise1 has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 82 of 143 (873295)
03-13-2020 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
03-12-2020 5:29 PM


Re: A political side to it
Keep hearing about the Swine Flu epidemic that hit from 2009-10. I don't remember any hubbub about it at the time, but 60 million Americans got it, 500 million worldwide, I think it was 17 thousand Americans died of it. There was a vaccine but with numbers like that what good did it do?

I remember that one. I was in the hospital with some emergency surgery. As I walked up and down the hall as per recovery instructions, I walked past a few rooms quarantined off with H1N1.

That one was dealt with swiftly with proper resources and so didn't do that much damage.

Anyway we've got this big hubbub about Covid-19 now. Gosh, could it be because it's an opportunity to bash Trump even though he's doing a great job of dealing with it?

Not that I mind everybody taking extreme care to keep the numbers down. Good idea it seems to me.

Well, that all depends on how you keep the numbers down, doesn't it?

If you keep the numbers down by dealing effectively and proactively to identify, contain, and mitigate the spread and effects of the virus, then that would be a good thing.

However, if you keep the numbers down by suppressing the truth and lying to the public about what's happening, then the virus will spread like wild-fire. That would be a bad thing. Like it was in China and Iran where they hid the fact that there was a problem. And like Trump wants to do.

Despite Donnie Jr's malicious lies that Democrats want Americans to die just to discredit Trump, nobody wants anyone to die (except Republicans seem determined to kill off the poor). Rather, we are afraid that Trump will screw the pooch royally and cause far too many unnecessary deaths. Which he is on his way of doing.

We had a functioning CDC. Trump cut their funding and is continuing to cut their funding.

We had a pandemic rapid-response team ready to respond effectively to a new threat. Trump got rid of it, because -- Obama. Obama had created it, so Trump had to destroy it to protect his fragile ego which he can only do by destroying all the good that the Black President had done.

Part of our pandemic defense was a team/agent in China monitoring possible new viral threats. Trump eliminated his position and thus eliminated any early warning that would give us valuable time to prepare and respond, which we now do not have.

Either CDC or NHI had a team already researching corona virii (many are already known). They were also working on a vaccine against all corona virii. Almost as soon as Trump came to office, he eliminated that team and its research. Now a coronavirus vaccine is more than a year out during which time how many will die? Unnecessary? Just because of Trump?

The World Health Organization (WHO) had a test for the virus. All the countries got it except for the USA. Trump refused it, wanting to use a CDC test (which they didn't even know at that moment that they were supposed to be working on it). Why? Nobody knows. Could it be because Trump was still angry at the UN for everybody in the General Assembly laughing at him when he made a complete fool of himself before (almost literally) the entire world?

Well, now we have lost several extremely valuable weeks waiting for widespread testing. South Korea already went for widespread testing and has made very good progress in containing and mitigating the disease. We still have no idea of the extent of the problem in the USA.

Trump's only concerns are that the stock market will tank, which it is doing, and how that would affect his re-election (which he desperately needs to stay out of jail). A caller on radio talked about living in a Red State and how at the local bar everybody would loudly praise Trump and how well their 401(k) was doing. Now, all you hear are crickets. There is a hope that now the Trump supporters will start to wake up.

Trump does not care about the health of the people. He is still trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in order to deprive millions of Americans of healthcare -- not a good thing in a healthcare crisis. He is still trying to take food out of the mouths of children with his food stamps cuts -- which is a definite issue for the working poor who get symptoms but have to still go in to work or else they will starve and get evicted.

Trump's "plan" is just an opportunistic grab. He wants a "payroll tax cut" to solve this coronavirus problem. That is to say he wants to cut out FICA, which is what funds Social Security and Medicare (Part A). So for the elderly who will need all the medical coverage they can get in this crisis, he wants to pull the rug out from under them.

An on-going problem with Trump's handling of this crisis is that he will get up in front of the camera and give false information and suggestions that either completely contradict what the experts had just said or else the experts have to follow him and try to undo the damage that he had just done.

The coup de grĂ¢ce was Trump's Oval Office address last night (Wed, 11 Mar 20). He made one claim after the other from a prepared, tele-prompted speech (otherwise it would have been a stream-of-unconsciousness rambling like we always get when he's on his own). Then immediately, the White House had to scramble to restate almost everything he had just said.

Chris Hayes of MSNBC covered it far better than I could:

Chris Hayes tonight -- "The Failure Of Coronavirus Comes From The Top" --:

Faith, listen to the testimony of Dr. Fauci, MD, an actual expert in these matters. He works for Trump.

The only thing more spectacular about our lack of response to the corona virus is that we have been, by far and with no peers, the worst responder to this emergency in all the world.

WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 03-12-2020 5:29 PM Faith has taken no action

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 97 of 143 (873343)
03-15-2020 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
03-13-2020 1:09 PM


Re: A political side to it
But here we've got, what, 40 deaths, FORTY, and the whole nation is shut down. Less than two thousand infected? And the whole nation is shut down?

First, just could you possibly know how many people in the US are infected? How could anybody possibly know when we've hardly tested anyone? Until we start large-scale testing we will have no idea how many people are infected.

Second, do you notice who it is that's shutting down the nation? Not the federal government. Rather, it's state and local governments, local organizations and businesses, and individuals. Why are they taking it upon themselves to act to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus? Because they have to. Because of the glaring lack of leadership from the White House.

So why is everybody panicking? Because of the glaring lack of leadership from the White House. Three years of Trump constantly lying is catching up with him now. He's trying to bullshit-lie his way out of this crisis and it's not working this time. Before, they were willing to overlook his incompetence because he was juicing up the stock market (which is not the real economy) and making their 401(k) and IRA accounts fatter, but now they're floundering because of this (mine has dropped about $50,000). They know better than to trust anything that comes out of his lying mouth. He has no credibility. His public statements are still lies and misinformation that contradict what the experts tell us. Instead of seeing to it that the people will not starve and end up on the street and not even be able to be tested or even just plain let the people know what's happening, Trump kept worrying about the stock market and about bailing out corporations and about keeping the reported numbers low (to the point that that is the reason he wanted to keep US citizens on that cruise ship, so that the number of cases would not go up and make him look bad). And he explicitly refused to accept responsibility for anything. Obama left him with an organization to handle such an outbreak and Trump scrapped it two years ago. We had a research team that was working on a coronavirus vaccine (we've known about them for a long time) and he got rid of them a couple years ago, along with the groundwork for a vaccine that is now about a year and a half away. The World Health Organization (WHO) came out with a test for the virus which it made available to many countries, but the US decided to reject it in favor of their own, which is just now starting to show up two months later! That's two months of lost time! Plus, instead of preparing for the impact this can have on our healthcare system, Trump was too busy trying to wish it away to the cornfield. He only just now finally got around to declaring a national emergency. Too little too late.

So of course the public is panicking, what with Trump at the helm. We need the President to take command of the situation and Trump is failing us, very bigly.

 
Now, if you want to compare Obama and H1N1 (swine flu) with Trump and COVID-19, here are a couple pages:


Compare the two cases in terms of what actions were taken and when.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 03-13-2020 1:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 03-15-2020 4:46 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5062
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 100 of 143 (873371)
03-15-2020 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
03-15-2020 4:46 AM


Re: A political side to it
You write such offensive stuff I have little motivation to read any of it.

Yeah, well, you are so flagrantly offended by the facts. Sorry, that's your problem.

I am curious, however, about what's in your links.

SO FOLLOW THE FUCKING LINKS, YOU FUCKING C**T!

What the fuck is your problem? It's a fucking link! FOLLOW IT!

You clutching your pearls and acting so fake-offended does nothing more than expose your hypocrisy. Gee, what did Jesus say about hypocrites? But then what should you care about what Christian doctrine actually teaches?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 03-15-2020 4:46 AM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Tangle, posted 03-15-2020 6:46 AM dwise1 has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022