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Author | Topic: Morality without God is impossible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: The only reason your argument carries any weight is if the people of that time were judged through human-centrism. The fact is, they were Theo-centric. Since theology was created by humans within a society, it circles back on itself. Morality makes no sense once it is taken out of the human context. If God ordered humanity to do something that went against our most basic moral sense then it is immoral for God to make that command. There is no way around it. If morality is simply based on what God commands then we are no different than dogs who take commands or computers. Following orders isn't morality. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: But this is an assumption made by secular humanists. While the ideas about God were written by humans, God the concept is Himself Creator of all things---including humans. So says a human.
God was testing Abraham, so the story goes. If human justice places God no higher of an authority than humans, your argument has merit. Critics would argue that God by definition represented the main authority in those times. Just as presidents enjoy diplomatic immunity for a season, so would God. If someone claims that God ordered them to slay a bunch of innocent people, what do we do? Do we throw them in jail?
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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GDR writes: I'm simply saying that if there is a morality that exists outside of human existence then there needs to be a source for that. If however, there is no morality outside of human existence then morality is simply what any group or even individual decides it to be. Morality doesn't make any sense outside of human existence. If there was this alleged objective morality that existed outside of human existence and it went against everything humans believed to be moral, then what good is that objective morality? If an objective morality told us that we should randomly kill half of all children under the age of 5, would we obey that objective moral code? Would we even want to? The source of morality is interaction between emotional beings. When one person can harm another it gives birth to morality. Morality doesn't exist outside of that interaction. Furthermore, each intelligent, sentient, and emotional species is going to have their own moral code defined by their specific interactions and emotions. We even see this with life on Earth. We don't arrest animals that kill another member of their species like we do in our own species.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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GDR writes: The Golden Rule The Golden Rule is an entirely subjective morality. It is based solely on our own subjective opinions of how we want to be treated, what would harm us, and what would benefit us. It is based entirely on the human condition.
Morality isn't an emotion. You may want to think about that one for a while. Injustice, pain, harm, and well being are all emotions, and they form the foundation of morality. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
GDR writes: It does mean however that it allows for other subjective views that we would consider to be immoral to be moral. Absolutely. This is why views on morality have changed through many ages. As our philosophies and worldviews change our morality changes with it. That's the way it should be. How awful would it be to have an unchanging moral code that no longer reflects the beliefs of the human population?
They effect our moral behaviour but they aren't morality itself. Then what is?
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Here are a couple of good references I have found on objective and subjective morality. They reflect my own conclusions on the subject.
quote: quote: Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
ringo writes: Why would a god's morality benefit us at all? It also begs the question of why different gods have different moral codes. For all the effort spent propping up a theistic objective morality, we see those same people objecting to the idea of having to follow Sharia law, an objective moral law laid down by God (allegedly). The massive contradictions between alleged objective moral codes should be a big warning sign for those who ascribe to an absolute objective morality.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
GDR writes: I am not making up a god in my own image. Are you following a religion made in the image of someone else?
My Christian faith is based on the belief that God resurrected Jesus. If I am wrong in that, they my Christian faith is a waste of time. However if I am right then I have good reason for my belief in a universal morality that is based on the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule isn't universal. It only applies to humans.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
GDR writes: Yes. Jesus Last I checked, Jesus didn't write the gospels.
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