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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Moral issues and the Justice system or something like that | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
In a way it's hard to say what I want to get at here. I keep losing my own frame of reference. Something about being annoyed that issues were brought up about morality that people shouldn't have to spend so much time trying to resolve. I guess this is because I have the Christian point of view that we're all sinners, any of us could have been in circumstances that caused us to act criminally, in a way it's all God's grace if we don't. But nevertheless crimes must be punished. The Bible clearly says that if someone kills a human being he must die for it. So all the ponderings about whether or not someone is completely evil or partially evil or whatenot are just red herrings. Maybe I'll figure out more cldearly what I'm trtrying to say if this gets discussed. I think what you might be trying to elucidate is the degrees to which someone can fall on a scale of good to evil. Perhaps their mentioning of him being a good caretaker was to show the dichotomy of behaving genuinely compassionately in one instance and yet paradoxically behaving in a manner so appalling that it shocks the conscience as a way to explain that they didn't see this coming. Its possible for cartel members to read their children a bedtime story and do everything in their power to love those children while simultaneously being able to disassociate themselves by murdering and torturing someone else's child just to exact revenge on their enemies. Serial killers are also often able to live productive lives and raise families while secretly fantasizing and carrying out horrific rapes and murders. I think good and evil is not binary. Terrible people are occasionally capable of doing something good while good people are occasionally capable of doing something terrible. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Sorry, you're wrong. The death penalty is entirely Christian. I'm sorry Catholics are too liberal to understand that, and like many others misread the Bible. There are always going to be mistakes, people who were wrongly convicted. We should do everything possible to prevent that, even curtailing executions until the system is more reliable at identifying miscarriages of justice. But not because there's something wrong with the death penalty as the just sentence for certain crimes, because there isn't. As usual, the bible constantly contradicts itself... but here are some basic precepts that Jesus spoke in stark contrast to the very Law that demands and commands death.
quote: quote: quote: quote: As you can see, Jesus never denied the Law... He said the Law was valid. What they did not understand was that he was setting himself up as the propitiation of the Law which therefore did away with its rigorous constraints -- not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The bible also says that you, being a woman, need to go outside the gates of the city when you're menstruating. Having not done that makes you eligible for death. Ever eaten a shrimp? Death to you then. Do you see where I am going with this? Because Jesus himself tried to make it very clear that every one of us violated the law and therefore are worthy of death... that is until he became that guilt offering. If you want capital punishment then you want to reinstitute the Law of Moses. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
The OT doesn't regard killing the fetus as murder but it does regard it as a child. Which we know from other scriptures about God's knowing us in the womb and so on. And yes it was property, that doesn't make it less human. Oh, you mean like killing the first born male child of an Egyptian human and Egyptian animal? You mean like that? "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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You personally have defended the killing of the unborn and children to me on this very forum on multiple occasions. I'm thinking specifically about the Flood and Jericho. I would truly love to hear you defending life on occasion. She can't because its indefensible.
quote: God doesn't need abortions, He is perfectly "happy" to seize infants and smash their skulls against rocks. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Is God somehow unable to manage to kill the adults without also killing the kids? He's somehow unable to be happy killing only the actual bad guys, he has to take out their wives and the children, and their extended families and...well... let's just kill everything and everyone. God's collateral damage. God isn't as interested in laser-guided munitions designed to kill and only kill the intended target as he is carpet bombing villages indiscriminately. "Look, if you wanna omelette you're gonna have to crack a few eggs, amirite?" -- The Lord of Hosts
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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All I'm doing is believing God, the God of the Bible, who certainly does kill people in judgment, including babies and the unborn. I think what he is attempting to elucidate is what possible retributive "judgment" could infants and the unborn pose?
Being a believer, knowing that He's God and I'm not, knowing that God is good and cannot sin, I know that whether I understand it or not, and of course I don't, His judgments are good. Uh-huh, and that kind of blissful ignorance is precisely the same mentality that ISIS has as they're sawing off your head. This is Allah's retributive judgment and who are you question God's will? That's what you're failing to see over and over and over again and somehow not make the connection back to yourself. Its remarkable and stultifying to watch.
I keep thinking lately that the most effective way to deal with this pandemic would be if great numbers of us saw ourselves as sinners and repented before God and asked Him to give us a solution to this problem. But as it is I even have to hesitate when I personally talk to God in this way because I know so many people speak so abusively about Him I don't see why He would want to be merciful to us about anything. The Israelites who wanted a golden calf to worship instead of the one true God Moses was talking to on Mount Sinai were just confused about God's nature, but today people aren't just confused, and it isn't even that so many merely don't believe, there is an active self-righteous hatred of God, the gall to judge Him instead of letting Him judge us, which is His prerogative. There is no sense at all of the rightness of the "fear and trembling" scripture says is the appropriate attitude toward the omnipotent God. Maybe you're the one worshipping the Golden Calf by clinging to Bronze Age bullshit. Maybe the one true God is still out there waiting for you to find -- one that doesn't destroy entire nations, one that doesn't send you to eternal and unending misery if you question the veracity of the claim. The sureness of your position extends well past faith and is now in the realm of blindly following cultish behavior. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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