Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Moral issues and the Justice system or something like that
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 42 of 171 (873498)
03-16-2020 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
03-16-2020 11:40 AM


The OT doesn't regard killing the fetus as murder but it does regard it as a child. Which we know from other scriptures about God's knowing us in the womb and so on. And yes it was property, that doesn't make it less human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 03-16-2020 12:04 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:13 PM Faith has replied
 Message 58 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-16-2020 5:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 45 of 171 (873508)
03-16-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
03-16-2020 12:13 PM


Please learn to tell the difference between the innocent and the guilty. I know it's hard but try. And the son in the example is generally understood to be a grown son, not a child. Like the priest Eli's grown sons who were considered by God to be Eli's responsibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 46 of 171 (873509)
03-16-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
03-16-2020 12:13 PM


Sorry, human beings have been regarded as property until very recently. that includes wives, children and slaves. And they still are in other parts of the world.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:34 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 49 of 171 (873515)
03-16-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ringo
03-16-2020 12:34 PM


No it did not come from the Bible, the Bible merely reflects the practices of the times, the entire world is fallen in reality, though we onlyh get to know about it thanks to the Bible, and being fallen ALL cultures everywhere always have treated women children and slaves as property. Women in unChristianized cultures are still suffering from the curse of the Fall, and slavery has been practiced worldwide throughout history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:49 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 51 of 171 (873517)
03-16-2020 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
03-16-2020 12:49 PM


Justifying it? Learn to read!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 12:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 1:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 53 of 171 (873519)
03-16-2020 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
03-16-2020 1:11 PM


As I said learn to read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 1:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 1:17 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 55 of 171 (873521)
03-16-2020 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
03-16-2020 1:17 PM


No you are misreading the Bible and misreading me. As usual. The Bible does its teaching within the normal human cultural context, it does not justify any of that in so doing, in fact if you do know how to read, which you've shown many times that you don't but in case you ever learn how, you may notice that God's law provides for measures that reduce the effects of the fallen culture by humanizing the slavery practices and so on. Of course you don't know how to read so this will fall on deaf ears in your case but perhaps someone else will have ears to hear. If not, oh well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 03-16-2020 1:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 03-17-2020 7:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 62 of 171 (873542)
03-16-2020 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Aussie
03-16-2020 2:23 PM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
Isn't it weird that you are constantly defending killing people, Faith? The atheists are defending life while you are just Death's cheerleader on this forum. You personally have defended the killing of the unborn and children to me on this very forum on multiple occasions. I'm thinking specifically about the Flood and Jericho. I would truly love to hear you defending life on occasion.
I'm "constantly defending killing people?" Wow.
God kills as justice/judgment, which unfortunately includes children and the unborn. That was the reason for the Flood and Jericho. We are delegrated to execute criminals as judgment, but abortion is killing the innocent. So is every kind of murder yet so many here can't seem to tell the difference between judgment and murder.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Aussie, posted 03-16-2020 2:23 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 8:43 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 66 of 171 (873562)
03-17-2020 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Aussie
03-17-2020 8:43 AM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
The alacrity with which so many here speak evil against God makes me shudder. You can be an atheist without hating God and finding fault with His judgments. All I'm doing is believing God, the God of the Bible, who certainly does kill people in judgment, including babies and the unborn. Being a believer, knowing that He's God and I'm not, knowing that God is good and cannot sin, I know that whether I understand it or not, and of course I don't, His judgments are good.
"Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" says the Bible. That is a way of saying we need to have a healthy respect for the fact that God does punish sin, and that means our personal sins as well as the sins of nations. When He kills whole nations/tribes it is certainly judgment for their sins. Jesus also said we should not fear the one who can only kill our bodies, who is Satan, but we should fear the one who can also kill our souls or throw us into eternal punishment or something like that, I forget the exact quote, and that's God.
I keep thinking lately that the most effective way to deal with this pandemic would be if great numbers of us saw ourselves as sinners and repented before God and asked Him to give us a solution to this problem. But as it is I even have to hesitate when I personally talk to God in this way because I know so many people speak so abusively about Him I don't see why He would want to be merciful to us about anything. The Israelites who wanted a golden calf to worship instead of the one true God Moses was talking to on Mount Sinai were just confused about God's nature, but today people aren't just confused, and it isn't even that so many merely don't believe, there is an active self-righteous hatred of God, the gall to judge Him instead of letting Him judge us, which is His prerogative. There is no sense at all of the rightness of the "fear and trembling" scripture says is the appropriate attitude toward the omnipotent God.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 8:43 AM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by frako, posted 03-17-2020 9:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 69 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 10:01 AM Faith has replied
 Message 83 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-17-2020 11:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 70 of 171 (873567)
03-17-2020 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Aussie
03-17-2020 10:01 AM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
Just a gentle reminder that God's response to the golden calf incident was the slaughter of 3, 000 people!!!!
"The wages of sin is death," Aussie. I didn't make that up. And of course if God wiped out so many of His own people for their false worship, I worry that He's not going to tolerate much more of this evilspeaking against Him so many do these days. Even this pandemic is God's judgment you know, nothing happens without Him. His Moral Law contines to operate. "The windmills of the Lord grind very fine." Nevertheless in His mercy He gives us ways to deal with it. We should be grateful. Wish you were.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 10:01 AM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:16 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 72 of 171 (873570)
03-17-2020 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Aussie
03-17-2020 10:01 AM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
Of course you don't understand it. It's bloody barbarism in its most vicious incarnation. The killing of babies is a monstrous evil to take the breath away. We atheists will repudiate the deliberate killing of children and babies to the end of time, and we repudiate every brain that contemplates this killing and calls it "good." Like you do.
Funny then that so many atheists are all in favor of killing the unborn and lately some are even willing to kill the baby just after it is born.
And you know, the way God kills is imputed by atheists to normal events, to all sorts of natural things like hurricanes and earthquakes and diseases and pandemics. What we get from the Bible is the knowledge that there is a Moral Law in operation that brings these things about. It should be regarded as information we can make use of to control such things. Prayer, repentance, avoiding sin etc. Even some pagan relgions recognize the operation of a Moral Law that governs our lives, karma for instance. Yet instead of regarding this as helpful information through the mercy of God you hate Him. Amazing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 10:01 AM Aussie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 03-17-2020 11:13 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 81 by JonF, posted 03-17-2020 11:25 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 75 of 171 (873573)
03-17-2020 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Aussie
03-17-2020 10:01 AM


Kill the Adults and Leave the Children?
No it's not "collateral damage" that the children die too, it's part of the judgment of God. Either it is right for reasons we can't understand since children aren't innocent of the Fall either, or maybe it's just that killing the adults and leaving the children alive would be even worse for them than killing them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 10:01 AM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:20 AM Faith has replied
 Message 85 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:38 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 76 of 171 (873575)
03-17-2020 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Aussie
03-17-2020 11:16 AM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
There is no comparison with ISIS. Killing by humans for the evil reasons given by terrorists is murder. You can't compare God with human sin.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:16 AM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 03-17-2020 11:18 AM Faith has replied
 Message 82 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 79 of 171 (873578)
03-17-2020 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
03-17-2020 11:18 AM


Re: Faith: Death's little cheerleader...
Prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 03-17-2020 11:18 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-17-2020 11:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 80 of 171 (873579)
03-17-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Aussie
03-17-2020 11:20 AM


Re: Kill the Adults and Leave the Children?
Be careful Aussie. I'm defending God and you are blaspheming Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:20 AM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Aussie, posted 03-17-2020 11:29 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 96 by Coragyps, posted 03-17-2020 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024