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Author Topic:   Coronavirus and Pandemics
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 31 of 955 (873588)
03-17-2020 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
03-17-2020 10:20 AM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
Faith writes:
VITAMINS FOR THE IMMUNE SYSTEM
One bit of advice I found was to take the vitamins that strengthen the immune system, such as megadoses of vitamin C. Vitamin A was also mentioned but as I understand it smokers and former smokers should not take that because it is known to cause lung cancer. Natural beta carotene from carrots is OK though, and carrot juice is a way to get a concentrated form of it. Another on the list is zinc, and that's all I've collected so far. I think D3 should probably also be added but I haven't read up on that for this purpose.
In the vast majority of cases, megadoses don't do much. As long as your body has enough of a vitamin it will do just fine, and adding more won't produce any significant benefit.
quote:
1. Med Monatsschr Pharm. 2009 Feb;32(2):49-54; quiz 55-6.
[Vitamin C and immune function].
[Article in German]
Strhle A(1), Hahn A.
The immune system is strongly influenced by the intake of nutrients. For a long time there has been a controversy whether vitamin C can contribute to the prevention and therapy of the common cold. Several cells of the immune system can indeed accumulate vitamin C and need the vitamin to perform their task, especially phagocytes and t-cells. Thus a vitamin C deficiency results in a reduced resistance against certain pathogens whilst a higher supply enhances several immune system parameters. With regard to the common cold different studies including meta-analyses underline that the prophylactic intake of vitamin C may slightly reduce the duration of the illness in healthy persons but does not affect its incidence and severity. Supplementation of vitamin C is most effective in cases of physical strain or insufficient intake of the vitamin. With regard to the therapy of the common cold the application of vitamin C alone is without clinical effects.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 10:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 12:09 PM Taq has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 955 (873590)
03-17-2020 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taq
03-17-2020 11:57 AM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
Since any of us can be deficient in Vitamin C I'm for taking it. The quote shows that the immune system benefits from it and the stronger the immune system the better for facing a pandemic. How much is needed probably varies and I don't know how you tell, but it can't hurt to overdose on Vitamin C.
Although one can overdose on Vitamin A, it would be hard to overdose on carrot juice.
As for Zinc.... don't know.
But I'm still interested in my question about coconut oil. Any thoughts on what I wrote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 03-17-2020 11:57 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by hooah212002, posted 03-17-2020 12:24 PM Faith has replied
 Message 40 by Taq, posted 03-17-2020 3:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 33 of 955 (873592)
03-17-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
03-17-2020 11:31 AM


Re: A Question About Masks
Also, the N95 isn't very effective if you haven't been trained how to put it on and wear it properly.
Me, I'm going to put my trust in the trained experts. They may be wrong, but they are going to be more likely to have the correct advice to follow, and follow up corrections will be better information than random guys on the internet.

But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 11:31 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 12:23 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 38 by Chiroptera, posted 03-17-2020 2:18 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 34 of 955 (873594)
03-17-2020 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Chiroptera
03-17-2020 12:17 PM


Random guy on the internet?
Are you calling the man in the videos a "random guy on the internet?" No, he's an expert of the very sort you are talking about. Go listen to him.
Message 19 and Message 25
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 35 of 955 (873595)
03-17-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
03-17-2020 12:09 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
quote:
but it can't hurt to overdose on Vitamin C.
Too much supplemental vitamin C can actually hurt
For adults, the recommended daily amount for vitamin C is 65 to 90 milligrams (mg) a day, and the upper limit is 2,000 mg a day. Although too much dietary vitamin C is unlikely to be harmful, megadoses of vitamin C supplements might cause:
Diarrhea
Nausea
Vomiting
Heartburn
Abdominal cramps
Headache
Insomnia
Remember, for most people, a healthy diet provides an adequate amount of vitamin C.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 12:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 12:27 PM hooah212002 has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 36 of 955 (873596)
03-17-2020 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by hooah212002
03-17-2020 12:24 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
Yes I've overdosed to the point of diarrhea, so I know to stop short of that dosage. But as for a healthy diet, gorillas in the wild probably get enough C from their diet, but a lot of us can't be sure of that.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 37 of 955 (873604)
03-17-2020 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
03-17-2020 11:06 AM


Re: A Question About Masks
But if the virus can survive in the air for up to three hours then people can breath it in, and therefore an N95 mask can be effective. Very effective.
The only quibble I have with this is that the virus can be associated with moisture droplets from coughs and sneezes, and ordinary masks can block these sized particles. Not full protection but better than nothing. Maybe spritz the mask with hand sanitizer?
Certainly washing hands frequently (and before emptying the dishwasher, etc) goes a long way. Why not wash your face as well, with a paper towel that is disposed carefully? Wear gloves to go outside and dispose when home. Gloves will protect you from virus on doorknobs etc.
Any rubber glove should work. Thick kitchen gloves can be washed just like your hands.
Just some thoughts.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 955 (873605)
03-17-2020 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Chiroptera
03-17-2020 12:17 PM


Re: A Question About Masks
I was responding to your message responding to Percy's post about face masks? Does the guy in the video recommend healthy people walk around wearing N95 face masks? Is he making recommendations that contradict the official guidelines published by the established representatives of the scientific community?
I have to be honest, though. I almost never click on video or audio links. I don't absorb information very well that way and don't retain it very Well. Plus, I'd feel I'd have to verify it against trusted print sources, and if I'm going to do that I may as well just go to the print sources to begin with and save time.
Added by edit:
Oops. That was intended to be a reply to Faith at Message 34.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 03-17-2020 12:17 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 39 of 955 (873606)
03-17-2020 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
03-17-2020 10:20 AM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
Just spitballing here, Faith, as I have no data one way or the other, but coconut oil is just another fat. I don’t see it being particularly effective at disrupting the fat of a Coronavirus any more than the fats already in our bodies would.
Not to say that there might not be some weird antiviral agent other than the lipid (fat) in coconut oil, but that whole thing sounds a little like ginkgo biloba cures ____ like it did twenty years ago. It seems to have lost its popularity.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 10:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 5:56 PM Coragyps has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 40 of 955 (873611)
03-17-2020 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
03-17-2020 12:09 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
Faith writes:
Since any of us can be deficient in Vitamin C I'm for taking it.
Just be aware that you are probably taking way more than you need. It's a bit like adding 100 gallons of gas to your car and thinking it will make it drive faster.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 12:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 03-17-2020 4:57 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 03-17-2020 6:12 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 41 of 955 (873614)
03-17-2020 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taq
03-17-2020 3:50 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
The RDA is low. The dose that is wise is between 100 and 500mg daily. You all are right in that too much is too much, but the RDA is not enough.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 42 of 955 (873615)
03-17-2020 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Chiroptera
03-17-2020 2:18 PM


Re: A Question About Masks
Does the guy in the video recommend healthy people walk around wearing N95 face masks?
No. Dr. Michael Osterholm is saying quite the opposite. The N95 is for healthcare workers in constant close proximity to the infection, not for the general public out on the street. He goes further and says the usual surgical mask we see in public everywhere is not very effective at stopping *you* breathing in the droplets of someone's cough but can be somewhat effective if you are sick as it helps keep *your* cough from spewing out diseased droplets like a shotgun to everyone within 6-8 feet of you.
Is he making recommendations that contradict the official guidelines published by the established representatives of the scientific community?
No. As a member in good standing of that infectious disease discipline Dr. Osterholm helped write those guidelines many years ago in anticipation of the next bug showing up. He, along with the rest of the community, were ignored by this administration until it became clear to the Orange Bastard that his presidency was teetering on the brink of utter failure for being so stupid and slow with COVID-19.
Dr. Osterholm is one of the leading good guys in this disaster.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 43 of 955 (873616)
03-17-2020 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Coragyps
03-17-2020 2:44 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
The thing is, the fat in soap is a large part of what destroys the virus, with its fatty parts. I tried to find a nice succinct discussion of this but ran into pay walls and ad-cluttered sources, plus this one that is so irritatingly wordy I almost gave up on it and maybe I should have but I finally found a fairly quotable section:
Soap dissolves a virus’ structure
Soapy water is totally different [than alcohol-based disinfectants]. Soap contains fat-like substances known as amphiphiles, some structurally similar to the lipids in the virus membrane. The soap molecules compete with the lipids in the virus membrane. That is more or less how soap also removes normal dirt of the skin (see graphic at the top of this article).
The soap molecules also compete with a lot other non-covalent bonds that help the proteins, RNA and the lipids to stick together. The soap is effectively dissolving the glue that holds the virus together. Add to that all the water.
The soap also outcompetes the interactions between the virus and the skin surface. Soon the virus gets detached and falls apart like a house of cards due to the combined action of the soap and water. Boom, the virus is gone!
I had read something earlier that was a lot simpler about how it's the fat in soap that attacks the fatty covering of the virus and breaks it apart.
Anyway I put this information together with the claim that coconut oil has antiviral properties and was thrilled at the idea that there's something that may act like soap against the virus but is edible. I don't know if it's just that it's a fat, in which case why wouldn't olive oil or butter do as well, or there's something else about coconut fat that makes it antiviral.
I'm still intrigued by the possibility and will probably try to find out more.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Coragyps, posted 03-17-2020 2:44 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 03-17-2020 6:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 44 of 955 (873618)
03-17-2020 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taq
03-17-2020 3:50 PM


Re: Advice for dealing with the virus, and a possible antiviral aid?
I am likely to listen to some of the health "nuts" and may overdose to some extent, though it does have a bad effect on my digestive system above a thousand or two mg so I don't follow them above that. It's true that I might get too much that way but as Phat points out the RDA is too low, WAY too low according to many, and I'm willing to overdose a bit to get through this pandemic.
Carrot juice and zinc and D3 are also on my list, and i'll keep looking for other recommendations. I'm in the age group that is particularly susceptible to this virus and I'd rather go in the Rapture if you don't mind.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 45 of 955 (873619)
03-17-2020 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Chiroptera
03-17-2020 2:18 PM


Re: A Question About Masks
Yes I knew you were talking to me. The thing is, as AZP points out, Osterholm IS an expert, what he says in those videos is very credible and helpful. But of course go with print if that works better for you.

This message is a reply to:
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