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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Moral issues and the Justice system or something like that | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
I don't think it's a good idea to avoid pondering. The world needs more pondering, not less. I WAS thinking that maybe one has to have the Christian perspective to avoid all this unnecessary pondering about a good side and so on.... In the specific case, I don't think the good things that the culprit may have done have any relevance. The only question is, "Do we need to protect society from this guy?" and the answer is, "Yes.""I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Not according to Jesus: The death penalty is entirely Christian.quote:You're the one who is misreading the Bible. It's right there, as plain as day. "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It certainly has to do with justice systems. Jesus was directly addressing the justice system of the Jews, in which the people carried out the verdict themselves. The clear meaning of his words was that nobody is qualified to impose a death sentence - not a lynch mob and not a judge and jury.
This has nothing to do with governments. Jesus never ever addressed governments except to say give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what s God's. Faith writes:
That is not what God told Noah. What God told Noah stands and is not to be overturned: Whoever takes the life of a human being is to be put to death.quote:"At the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man". That is clearly not about capital punishment. Beasts are not executioners. It's a prediction of violence against man, by beasts and by other men. Faith writes:
Exactly. You are not allowed to use your twisted version of "what God told Noah" to overrule Jesus. And we are not to use any part of scripture to overturn any other part of scripture."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
I didn't say He did. I said you contradicted Him. Sorry. Jesus is God, He did not contradict the Old Testament scriptures. Period. God also forbade capital punishment for Cain, the first murderer - and what He said to Noah had nothing to do with capital punishment."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It shows that the fetus was considered the property of the husband. Killing it was like killing his ox. It was not considered murder. The third prescribes the punishment to be meted out by the husband of a woman who lost their baby because of violence against her. How is that having nothing against the loss of a baby in the womb?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Chapter and verse? The OT doesn't regard killing the fetus as murder but it does regard it as a child. It was okay to kill a rebellious son:quote:At least he got a trial. Note that it doesn't say "child", it says "son", presumably of any age. Also, contrast with Jesus' prodigal son story. Faith writes: Which we know from other scriptures about God's knowing us in the womb and so on.quote:That's before we were in the womb. He knew our atoms. It has nothing to do with abortion. Faith writes:
Of course it does. Property is not human. Humans are not property. And yes it was property, that doesn't make it less human."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Innocence or guilt is irrelevant because the fetus was considered to be property. Property is neither innocent nor guilty.
Please learn to tell the difference between the innocent and the guilty. Faith writes:
You "understanding" is often contradictory to what the Bible actually says. And the son in the example is generally understood to be a grown son, not a child. And you haven't backed up your claim that, "The OT doesn't regard killing the fetus as murder but it does regard it as a child.""I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yes indeed. That idea came from the Bible - and was rejected by our increasingly-secular society. Sorry, human beings have been regarded as property until very recently."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And those practices were all justified with quotes from the Bible. And you're still doing it. No it did not come from the Bible, the Bible merely reflects the practices of the times..."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yes. You have justified slavery yourself, using the Bible, right on this very forum. Justifying it?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I did read. And everybody else can read too, so they know what the Bible says and they know what you said. You have used the Bible to justify slavery, as I said. As I said learn to read."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yeah, right back atcha - only I actually quote the Bible so those people can see what it actually says. You, on the other hand, have nothing to back up the apologetic claims that you have memorized. Of course you don't know how to read so this will fall on deaf ears in your case but perhaps someone else will have ears to hear."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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GDR writes:
It dehumanizes the whole society. You can't affirm the value of life by killing people. We should be telling the Ted Bundys, "We don't kill people, no matter what. We're better than that." I would argue that every time an execution is carried out, that to one degree or another it dehumanizes the person that is the one carrying out the execution."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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