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Author Topic:   "Best" evidence for evolution.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 601 of 830 (873688)
03-18-2020 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by caffeine
03-18-2020 3:34 PM


Re: Ordinary selection of built in variation is not species to species evolution -
Yes I think all birds should be regarded as a species, and all the different kinds of birds as subspecies or varieties. I think that reflects the original creation most clearly.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 606 of 830 (873708)
03-18-2020 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by Tangle
03-18-2020 4:51 PM


Taxonomic classification
Yeah I don't think Linnaeus got it all right either. He split the birds into species where I would make them all one species for instance. Unless a term like "Family" should be used the way I use Species I don't see any need for any taxonomic categories other than Species and Subspecies.
And yes I do think trilobites are all one species. I consider a species to be the original created Kind by the way. I think it should be possible to determine it morphologically.
It preceded the ToE but the confusions are now because of the ToE. IMHO.
I haven't tried to sort through all the categories but I did ponder the Linnaean system fairly recently. Maybe you missed it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 608 of 830 (873713)
03-18-2020 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by Tangle
03-18-2020 5:54 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
You said I hadn't given any thought to it, and I answered that have. I think you forgot the context.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 611 of 830 (873718)
03-18-2020 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Tangle
03-18-2020 6:13 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
True, I don't think it's as hard as they make it out to be, except in a few very difficult cases. To split birds into separate species is really indefensible because they are so easily identified as birds, there's not much difficulty there. Penguins and ostriches might be a problem but isn't it a very birdy-looking bird Linnaeus made into a separate species?
Yeah I guess it does look easier to me than they claim.
As for trilobites, THEY are the ones who named the weirdest looking ones "trilobite" and since I can see why I just collapse them into one Species.
Yes I'm a very astonishing person, I agree.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 617 of 830 (873756)
03-19-2020 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 615 by Tangle
03-19-2020 4:41 AM


Re: Taxonomic classification
Neither of your examples is a bird. Do I get an A?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 619 of 830 (873766)
03-19-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 618 by Tangle
03-19-2020 10:41 AM


Re: Taxonomic classification
They don't have the morphology of birds, didn't I say that's the criterion? They don't have the shape, the head, the beak, the feathers, the kind of wings etc etc etc. I already discussed birds somewhere.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 621 of 830 (873795)
03-19-2020 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by Tangle
03-19-2020 12:29 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
I wouldn't have a problem with the basic method. except I discovered on the Linnaean chart a couple of categories I thought were wrong, separating out the thrush as if it were some special species of bird from all the other birds or something like that being one such instance that didn't seem to make any sense. And of course as a Creationist I don't put the creatures in Families above the Species, or I would make the Family the equivalent of the Species, but worse than that Linnaeus puts creatures in Families that are entirely different Kinds in my thinking from the Species he arranges beneath the Family. Something like that. The point is that I don't object to the basic idea but I do object to some of the specifics I found on his chart.
It would be a big project but some time I could try to go through the whole Linnean chart to compare it with how I understand the Kinds. TGhere would certainly be some creatures I'm not familiar with so I could only go so far with it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 623 of 830 (873799)
03-19-2020 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by PaulK
03-19-2020 3:57 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
Making the thrush into a separate family separates it from other birds that seem to have all the same morphological characteristics. If not, what is the difference?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 626 of 830 (873802)
03-19-2020 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by PaulK
03-19-2020 3:57 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
I've been looking for the chart I used before and I can't find it. It was very clear and easy to read and now I can't find it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 627 of 830 (873803)
03-19-2020 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by Tangle
03-19-2020 4:13 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
I'm only interested in the Aves at the moment, what's your problem?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 629 of 830 (873808)
03-19-2020 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by PaulK
03-19-2020 4:48 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
Thanks but I need to find the chart I used before.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 631 of 830 (873811)
03-19-2020 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 630 by Tangle
03-19-2020 5:16 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
Arrogant narcissism seems to be defined these days as disagreeing with the establishment, in my case the ToE and the Old Earth, in Ttump's case the Waashington political Swamp.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 634 of 830 (873816)
03-19-2020 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by Tangle
03-19-2020 5:33 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
I don't know if I'll ever "do anything about" anything I think. I go on thinking about it nevertheless. If I run across the chart I saw it may prompt me to think some more.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 636 of 830 (873818)
03-19-2020 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 635 by Tangle
03-19-2020 5:55 PM


Re: Taxonomic classification
You think that just thinking something is the same as proving it.
In some cases I do think describing the thought serves as an argument. If it doesn't persuade I'm happy to have had the thought for my own purposes.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 646 of 830 (873873)
03-20-2020 6:42 PM


The Bird Kind is the point
Without the chart to look at I don't know what anyone is talking about and don't remember my own impressions when I saw it. I vaguely remember I had a question about how the birds were categorized, which indluded something about the way the thrushes were separated from other birds, but other questions as well. Since my interest is in figuring out how to define the Kind of Biblical Creationism, at the moment the Bird Kind, I'm certainly not going to be connecting birds with reptiles.
Cheers.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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