|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: "Best" evidence for evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Arrogant narcissism seems to be defined these days as disagreeing with the establishment, in my case the ToE and the Old Earth, in Ttump's case the Waashington political Swamp.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: No, it’s the idea that Your opinionated ignorance is better than actual knowledge. Taxonomy is based on a good deal of detailed investigation while your ideas are largely based on what you want to be true. And just to double down, you actually think that it is indefensible to prefer the standard concepts over your incoherent assumptions. Without even a hint of any justification. At the very least you think you should be considered a leading authority - when you don’t even qualify as an informed layman. THAT is narcissistic arrogance with a vengeance.. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: Arrogant narcissism seems to be defined these days as disagreeing with the establishment, in my case the ToE and the Old Earth, in Ttump's case the Waashington political Swamp. Well here comes another prophesy, you will never do anything about your restatement of biology's taxonomy but you will keep on blathering about it as though you had.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't know if I'll ever "do anything about" anything I think. I go on thinking about it nevertheless. If I run across the chart I saw it may prompt me to think some more.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: I don't know if I'll ever "do anything about" anything I think. I do. You think that just thinking something is the same as proving it.
If I run across the chart I saw it may prompt me to think some more. No you won't, you'll just imagine that you have. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You think that just thinking something is the same as proving it. In some cases I do think describing the thought serves as an argument. If it doesn't persuade I'm happy to have had the thought for my own purposes.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: In some cases I do think describing the thought serves as an argument. If it doesn't persuade I'm happy to have had the thought for my own purposes. I suppose it saves all the hard work of actually showing that something is right or wrong. Any idiot can have 'a thought'. Do let us know when you've actually done something.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1024 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I wouldn't have a problem with the basic method. except I discovered on the Linnaean chart a couple of categories I thought were wrong, separating out the thrush as if it were some special species of bird from all the other birds or something like that being one such instance that didn't seem to make any sense. And of course as a Creationist I don't put the creatures in Families above the Species, or I would make the Family the equivalent of the Species, but worse than that Linnaeus puts creatures in Families that are entirely different Kinds in my thinking from the Species he arranges beneath the Family. While of course I have no idea what classification you're referencing, for what little it's worth, Linnaeus didn't use families for animals at all. The concept of Family as a rank between Order and Genus only really became popular later in the 19th century Thrushes weren't given any special status by Linnaeus. He recognised several species (how many depends on which edition) in the same Genus, Turdus. Turdus, in turn, was placed in the order Passarae of the class Aves. You say that we should class thrushes as birds because they share the characteristics of birds. That is of course true, and both Linnaeus and modern biologists would agree with you there. But thrushes also share specific characteristics with one another that allow us to categorise them as thrushes and, further, share specific characters with most birds that allow us to categorise them as Passeriformes, as distinct from birds like penguins, or flamingos, or ducks, that don't. Birds, in turn, share characteristics with other vertebrates that allow them to be distinguished from invertebrates. None of the above requires arcane knowledge. It was clear to curious naturalists in the early 18th century and the broad outline of relationships described above has mostly held up as accurate right through the development of 21st century molecular biology and the deep statistical analyses of modern computers. Why are the features that unite birds the key ones in Faith-taxonomy, and not those that unite thrushes or vertebrates? Edited by caffeine, : fixed mobile autocorrects
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: This is the question I asked in Message 498.
... there are taxonomic groups linked by shared characteristics larger than species. So why a species rather than a genus, a family or an order ? Faith managed no real answer, other than a display of massive ignorance in Message 507 ...the bird group share just about everything in common. The only real differences among them do seem to be the claw feet versus the paddle feet. Why anyone should try to talk about the taxonomy of birds without even considering the many other distinctions within the birds is beyond me. And that is a fine example of arrogant narcissism. It’s not the conflict with the establishment - as I said it’s the idea that opinionated ignorance beats actual knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And the difference between clawed and webbed feet is ....?????????????????
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Making the thrush into a separate family separates it from other birds that seem to have all the same morphological characteristics. If not, what is the difference? There are more morphological differences between bird families that there are between human and chimp, which you insist are entirely different taxons. From my Bird Book, Field Guide to Birds of North America, National Geographic Society:
quote: There are many morphological and structural differences between bird species that ornithologists identify. Beaks for instance have many more differences than those between human and chimp ... ... then feet, legs and necks, wings, feathers, etc To claim they are all one species is bull headed ignorance. But that's not new for you. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
All Birds fall into a clade, within and descendant from dinosaurs ...
quote: There is no one common ancestor to birds known at this time, and it may well be that several branches of feathered dinosaurs developed flight independently ,but, they are still dinosaurs, still therapods, as those feathered dinosaurs are apparently descendant from theropod dinosaurs that originated during the Mesozoic Era.
quote: Birds evolved from dinosaurs, and were very successful in evolutionary terms at improving survival. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1024 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Do you have these wikipedia excerpts stored locally or something? I went to improve the origin of birds one, to discover someone else had already done it long ago.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The first is a Scientific American article By Emily Singer, Quanta Magazine on June 12, 2015.
The second is what came up on search ... last edited march 4 2020. What changes would you make? I was only looking at the broad stroke picture of dinosaur → bird evolution. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1024 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I was just going to delete this meaningless sentence:
quote: But it's not in the article. Not sure how long ago it was removed, but definitely before the start of this year.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024