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Author Topic:   "Best" evidence for evolution.
Faith
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Posts: 35114
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 646 of 652 (873873)
03-20-2020 6:42 PM


The Bird Kind is the point
Without the chart to look at I don't know what anyone is talking about and don't remember my own impressions when I saw it. I vaguely remember I had a question about how the birds were categorized, which indluded something about the way the thrushes were separated from other birds, but other questions as well. Since my interest is in figuring out how to define the Kind of Biblical Creationism, at the moment the Bird Kind, I'm certainly not going to be connecting birds with reptiles.

Cheers.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 647 by Meddle, posted 03-20-2020 11:46 PM Faith has responded
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Meddle
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Posts: 178
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 647 of 652 (873893)
03-20-2020 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
03-20-2020 6:42 PM


Re: The Bird Kind is the point

This is Linnaeus 1735 classification of animals. Aves is the second column which is then divided into seven orders, with the seventh being the Passeriformes that is further subdivided into ten genera, the second being Turdus (the thrushes). Hope it helps you see what others are referring to.

Edited by Meddle, : No reason given.

Edited by Meddle, : No reason given.


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 Message 646 by Faith, posted 03-20-2020 6:42 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 648 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 12:09 AM Meddle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35114
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 648 of 652 (873894)
03-21-2020 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 647 by Meddle
03-20-2020 11:46 PM


Re: The Bird Kind is the point
Thank you very much. Wish it helped. My eyes are getting so bad I can't read that thing at all. Just a blur. There is a procedure that might help but I'm not going to any doctors for a while if I can help it. Maybe it was a different version of the chart I saw anyway. Thanks again but I've got to give up on this for now..

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PaulK
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Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 649 of 652 (873896)
03-21-2020 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Faith
03-20-2020 6:42 PM


Re: The Bird Kind is the point
quote:
Without the chart to look at I don't know what anyone is talking about and don't remember my own impressions when I saw it.

You’re the one who raised the issue. If you can’t remember enough to talk about it that was rather a waste of time,

quote:
I vaguely remember I had a question about how the birds were categorized, which indluded something about the way the thrushes were separated from other birds...

The thrushes are a genus within the birds - and within the order Passeres. Like all other taxonomic divisions they have a set of traits in common that are not fully shared with birds outside the genus (and another set of traits that place them in Passeres).

quote:
Since my interest is in figuring out how to define the Kind of Biblical Creationism, at the moment the Bird Kind, I'm certainly not going to be connecting birds with reptiles.

And there is your anti-scientific attitude again. Since you are only interested in claiming to be right you decide to ignore the problems. That only gets you to the level of bad apologetics. You’ll never produce a worthwhile argument that way, just a deception to fool the ignorant and the gullible.


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mike the wiz
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Posts: 4671
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 650 of 652 (873917)
03-21-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by wardog25
10-23-2008 10:21 AM


The best evidence for evolution in my opinion, is probably homological features, in that it would be explanative sense that a common ancestor would then explain why all of the bones in say the hand (pentadactyl pattern) would all then be shared.

As a creationist I don't believe this is actually evidence of evolution, it would only count as indirect evidence, and can be explained by ID, easily anyway.

The best evidence for evolution considering what it claims happened, would be direct evidence on the same scale of the claim itself.

I wrote more about this in chapter three of my, "book" for want of a better word; The chapter is here if you scroll down.

Chapter 1-3 of my book: A Brief Demolition Of Evolution Theory

(I also do not see the issue of evolution in simple terms, and later on give Darwin credit for the SOMEWHAT explanative power of evolution.)


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RAZD
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Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 651 of 652 (873919)
03-21-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by caffeine
03-20-2020 5:55 PM


Re: To the Taxonomic classification of BIRDS, add DINOSAURS
That's part of my comment on the evolution of birds.

I'd like to know why you think it is meaningless.


Getting back to the thread topic, the fact that birds fall into nested taxonomic hierarchies is strong evidence for evolution, both through analysis of morphology of fossils and through genetics/DNA analysis.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : topic


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caffeine
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Posts: 1787
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 652 of 652 (873949)
03-21-2020 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by RAZD
03-21-2020 10:42 AM


Re: To the Taxonomic classification of BIRDS, add DINOSAURS
That's part of my comment on the evolution of birds.

Apologies then. I would have worded it a bit more delicately if I'd realised they were your words.

I the context where you put them, I don't see how they convey any information. We don't have anything like the fine-grained knowledge of early bird evolution that we do of early Homo, on account of the timescales involved. Interbreeding between long-separated populations may well have been involved in the origin of birds. It likely was, since this kind of thing seems ubiquitous. But it's not something special to the origin of birds; nor does any evidence exist to suggest it's particularly relevant in this case compared to, say, the origin of snakes or the origin of iguanas.

Placed where it was, it read like a nonsequitur more likely to confuse and distract the reader then to provide them with any useful knowledge.


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