Re: Trump Refuses Responsibility for Extant Policies
Oh dear oh dear, he gets SO enraged. Do you take something for your blood pressure? You are making assertions you know nothing about. You don't know if the protocols would have been effective for the current pandemic or not, you merely assume they woulda been. Trump says they weren't, that new policies were needed and that's what he was announcing at the press conference.
I'm not sure calling me vile names by initials is an acceptable method of getting around the rules.
Oh wow! All kinds of meaningless fluff which all turns out to be ... meaningless. Why are we not in the least impressed?
I raised some questions, none of which you even bothered to address. Not even interesting since your non-response was expected:
DWise1 writes:
The CDC has worked out protocols for dealing with pandemics. If any protocol had been proposed which would not have been effective, then it would have been eliminated early on.
In doing that, their primary concern was how effective those protocols would be in addressing the problem.
So then, you FLC, SHOW US that the CDC had rejected proactive measures for monitoring for pandemics and for responding to a potential pandemic.
Furthremore, SHOW US that such a determination had NOT been made by a POLITICAL TRUMP APPOINTEE.
You have absolutely done nothing whatsover to address my questions.
You have yourself revealed yourself to be a FLC.
BTW, yes, I do take medication for hypertension. I am 68 years old, after all. But you are too meaningless to add to that.
Your views are just the usual Leftist crap, dwise. You take specific instances of opposition to certain results of science which you accept but others reject as FALSE, and call it an opposion to Science as Such. How can I take you seriously? I can't. It's just the typical politicized objection to positions on the Right. It's the same old crap I as a creationist have to deal with. No I do not reject Science, I reject certain positions that are considered to be scientific but aren't.
Uh, WHAT THE FUCK?????????
Here quite literally is what I had actually said (Message 5370):
DWise1 writes:
OK, this also borders on the on-going right-wing War Against Science.
Did you watch the movie, "The Martian"? Faced with trying to survive on Mars and everything else, the meme that emerged was "Sciencing the shit of this". And indeed (by my understanding), the author of the original story was a programmer who wrote computer simulations to work out what would have worked and what wouldn't.
So how do we "science the shit out of the coronavirus"? The basic answer is that this is indeed a question for science to answer.
But a fundamental position of the Trump Administration has been a war against science. So now they need science to pull their cookies out of the fire.
My prediction is that as soon as science pulls the GOP's cookies out of the fire, they will go right back to trying to kill science.
So then just what the FUCK are you fake-complaining about?
It's the same old crap I as a creationist have to deal with.
So much of what creationists come up with is such pure crap, could you please present to us what you think your best claims are? Seriously.
McCarthyism means weaponizing derogatory labels without regard to their truth, accuracy or consequences, and in your case you're even using the same derogatory label of communism that McCarthy used. He once produced a list from his pocket (that no one was given the opportunity to examine) that that he claimed contained a long list of State Department employees who were communists known to the Department itself. It eventually became apparent that McCarthy had no such list, no private conduit into government of where all the communists were hiding, and that he was just playing a political game with people's lives. Most who lost their jobs and livelihoods (remember blacklisting?) as a result of McCarthy's lies were not members of the Communist Party.
It is interesting to find that a lot of current evil doers have a past. Kevin Kavanaugh worked for Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment and when the Whitewater witch hunt produced no results, it was Kavanaugh who urged the sex scandal approach even to the point of coming up with the list highly specific and salacious sexual activity practically guaranteed to be denied by any person with any degree of shame (which he obviously doesn't have). Barr has a long history of making misleading "summaries" of documents that actually say nothing like what his summaries say.
Mobster lawyer Roy Cohn was the mentor of young Donald Trump and taught him all the dirty tricks he knew. Roy Cohn was also the chief architect behind McCarthyism. Story is that Cohn's boyfriend/lover was a private in the US Army. Cohn tried to get the Army to promote his boyfriend to a very high rank and when the Army refused to comply, Cohn started his Communist witch hunt against the Army.
Important to note is that almost everything Trump actually knows, he learned from his Roy Cohn.
Re: Arguing that Republicans couldn't manage an economy if they wanted to
A few days ago I saw an interview with Conn. Governor Ned Lamont:
One big problem that he pointed out is that he's faced with an upcoming medical care emergency where he'll need every healthcare professional he can get and more, but right now he has 200 who are self-quarantined because they were exposed to the virus and he cannot get them tested. He foresees a spike in cases within a week or so and he's losing nurses every day.
He doesn't cover why it is that we don't have the testing that we need weeks after other countries have implemented successful widespread testing. My understanding is that those other countries made use of the tests that the World Health Organization (WHO) provided to all countries, but the US refused those tests. Why? I haven't heard an explanation for it, but it has put us about a month behind the curve on our way towards an Italian trajectory. A possibility is that it was done in the search for profit (eg, for pharma companies to be able to get patents on their own testing and treatment products).
That's one way in which our privatized healthcare system poses a danger for public health in an emergency (let alone in daily life). In another interview which I cannot locate, he pointed out how privatized healthcare is not geared towards the necessary preparations for large-scale medical emergencies such as we are not facing. You need to have facilities standing by with stockpiles of beds and other equipment (eg, ventilators, masks, gloves). You need to have a network of local hospitals. There's no profit in stockpiling equipment or owning unused emergency facilities, so private healthcare companies will not do it. In order to make a profit, you need to minimize your expenses so they're going to maintain no more facilities than they need given normal numbers of patients; they are not going to want to bear the burden of the extra expense of stockpiling for an emergency. They are not going to bear the expense of keeping open hospitals that don't turn a profit, such as rural hospitals (which have been closing down often because they're in red states that have refused Medicaid funding) -- nor will they keep those closed facilities but will sell the properties instead.
It takes government to do the planning and stockpiling and preparation for emergencies such as a pandemic; private industry will not do it. GOP calls to privatize all these functions is therefore a recipe for disaster. Such as we now witness unfolding.
Yes and you remember I said that? How about proving it to ME?
Prove something to you?
You know full well that the most impossible thing to do is to prove anything to you! It has been tried countless times before and never successfully. You always find some lame excuse to avoid all facts and evidence presented to you. And then you redirect attention away with your usual wild and extremely offensive accusations against everybody else (and yet never yourself, the true belligerent in the vast majority of these cases).
Besides, you have repeatedly refused to present any evidence for your own claims, often relying on highly dubious "eye-witnesses". You expect us to be totally convinced by your "eye-witnesses". Since that is your own standard, then you must be satisfied when we invoke our own eye-witnesses.
Surely that graph merely represents the increase in testing.
No, not quite. Think about it.
We count the number of cases by the symptoms they display and, where they are not presenting symptoms, by the results of testing. Certain, as testing becomes more widespread, the number of cases will increase. That only makes sense.
HOWEVER, that is not what's happening -- or rather any increase due to asymptomatic cases being discovered through testing is so miniscule as to be nearly non-existent.
First, we are still very far behind in testing. We started far too late, in large part because this administration rejected the already proven WHO test in favor of developing our own test from scratch (further delayed by problems with the first iteration of our own test). And once we did get our own test working, production of test kits is still lagging very far behind the demand and the need for those tests.
Second, we are biasing the results of testing by preselecting whom to test. Because there are not enough test kits to go around, medical services have to choose which individuals get the test. Therefore, in order to get tested you must be displaying symptoms -- no symptoms, no test. And even then, it usually takes a full week to get your test results since the private testing labs are swamped.
That all results in no testing of the broader population which is where we should be testing. And the test results that we do get only confirm cases that we have already counted through their symptoms.
Therefore, what little increase of testing that we've been able to do has almost no impact on the number of cases tallied.
I highly recommend watching Gov. Cuomo's daily briefings, because he goes through the numbers and the different curves and tries to explain them as well as he can.
One point he made is that we are behind the curve with respect to the pandemic, trying to play catch-up. Where we need to be is in front of the curve ready to deal with whatever the virus throws at us.
Edited by dwise1, : "services have to" -- inexcusable for an English speaker with German training
The White House is obsessed with ratings, Kushner-Pence groups Infighting, and packed churches at Easter. Nobody's steering the ship.
Reminds me of a classic airliner crash during landing. I doubt that it's well known outside the industry, but it's supposed to be very well known by flight crews who go through periodic additional training on flight simulators where they're put through several emergency situations to learn how to handle them.
As I heard several years ago in an NPR report on that training, the first class starts by playing the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) recording of that flight. The plane was landing in Florida when it crashed into the ground short of the runway. All conditions were ideal: flat terrain, no weather conditions, daytime, unlimited visibility, no mechanical problems.
Well, almost no mechanical problems. One indicator light would not illuminate -- I seem to recall that it was for the landing gear being lowered (which I seem to recall was confirmed by other means, but I could be wrong about that). Because these flights are very routine and can be boring, everybody in the cockpit started getting involved in troubleshooting that indicator light problem -- it was the only interesting thing they had. The last thing on the recording is a voice saying, "Hey, look at the altimeter."
Everybody in a crew, in an organization, in an administration, has a job to do. If anybody does not do his job, that can result in a failed mission. If people in key positions do not do their jobs, then that guarantees mission failure.
In this administration, people in key positions are not doing their jobs. In today's Trump campaign rally, Trump asked us to imagine what it would look like if they weren't doing anything. We don't have to imagine, because Trump doing nothing (and even the opposite) for more then a month is what's causing this fuster cluck.
"There comes a time in the affairs of men when you have to grab the bull by the tail and face the situation." (W. C. Fields)
quote:The final NTSB report cited the cause of the crash as pilot error, specifically: "the failure of the flight crew to monitor the flight instruments during the final four minutes of flight, and to detect an unexpected descent soon enough to prevent impact with the ground. Preoccupation with a malfunction of the nose landing gear position indicating system distracted the crew's attention from the instruments and allowed the descent to go unnoticed."
In response to the accident, many airlines started crew resource management training for their pilots. The training is designed to make problem solving in a cockpit much more efficient, thus causing less distraction for the crew. Flashlights are now standard equipment near jumpseats and all jumpseats are outfitted with shoulder harnesses.
Funny how if "everybody knew it was coming" what "everybody" actually SAID was the same stuff Trump said at the beginning, oh no big deal, not to worry, etc.
You have a completely different definition of "everybody" than reality does. To you, "everybody" means the Trumpian sycophants of the Fake News Network (which includes FOX News and the talk radio hosts spreading the false claims coming from Trump). So of course they all just repeated Trump's lies about the looming pandemic and, since you listen to them instead of looking at reality, to your stunted perception it appears that "everybody" said the same stuff as Trump.
In reality, "everybody" means everybody with eyes in their heads and more than a few neurons firing inside their skulls. Everybody who would look at massive stormclouds filled with lightning approaching and could realize that they are in for a storm.
In particular, reality's everybody included medical and intelligence experts who kept trying to warn Trump about the pandemic barreling down on us. Trump chose to ignore them and to lie about the oncoming pandemic. And the Fake News Network (ie, your "everybody") just repeated Trump's lies. Lies which wasted several valuable weeks that we should have been using to prepare ourselves. Lies which have cost far too many unnecessary illnesses and deaths and will end up costing us many thousands more. Most of which could have been mitigated. Even FOX News is beginning to realize how exposed they are to wrongful death lawsuits because of the thousands of unnecessary deaths that have been and will have been caused by their spread of deadly misinformation.
Yeah I know that's your story and you're stickin to it but I doubt your story.
Reality is what it is. What do you expect me to stick to instead, batshit craziness? Like you do?
And I often skip posts that accuse me of things these days like not knowing what reality is.
And yet, over and over again for years with sickening regularity, you demonstrate that you in fact do not know what reality is. You have also demonstrated a profound ignorance of how anything works along with an equally profound disdain for ever learning anything. Furthermore, you repeatedly demonstrate a deep hatred for facts.
The last two actually make sense. You live in a fantasy world in order to reject and avoid reality. If you were to learn how things actually work in the real world and if you were to look at the facts, then that would weaken your fantasy. Therefore, you must avoid facts at all cost and cling to your blessed ignorance in order to fend off reality.
And when I hear the TRUE story of how it all went down I'm sure I'll let you know.
Unless you stop suckling on the teat of the real fake news (ie, the purveyors of Trumpian lies), you will never have a chance to ever hear the true story. Oh, we will try to convey the truth to you, but even you know that you will never allow yourself to listen.
But the real true story will come out of the Trump Crimes Commission that must follow. I hope you live to see that.
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