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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5517 of 5796 (873928)
03-21-2020 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 5512 by Faith
03-20-2020 7:16 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
Faith writes:
Governors simply have that responsibility, the federal government doesn't and if there was a conflict in one case it needs a lot more spelling out than your quote is giving it. Anything about Trump is always skewed or out of context in some way.
The point of the article JonF cited that you're responding to (Trump Told Governors to Buy Own Virus Supplies, Then Outbid Them) is that Trump instructed states to make their own purchases of medical supplies to fight the coronavirus threat, then outbid them. In the article Trump admitted that this is true:
quote:
Prices are always a component of that also. And maybe that’s why you lost to the feds, OK, that’s probably why.
Trump never says how the federal government is going to make the purchased supplies available to the states. Unless Trump plans to send those supplies out of the country, there is nowhere he could deploy those supplies that isn't in a state. Governors have a right to know where all the masks and gloves and ventilators are going. Are they going to the VA and military hospitals, or are going to be deployed to regular hospitals in the states, or some combination?
Medicare patients are not treated at the VA or at military hospitals but at non-governmental hospitals. If Federal bidding leaves these facilities bereft of the necessary supplies because the VA and the military has them all, then that's something they need to fix. I assume you do want the doctors and nurses in your nearby hospitals to have masks and gloves and ventilators?
This also follows the Trump pattern of refusing responsibility for anything he perceives isn't to his political advantage, such as national disasters like this. He's very consistent.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5512 by Faith, posted 03-20-2020 7:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5518 by jar, posted 03-21-2020 12:34 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 5521 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 2:22 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5525 of 5796 (873956)
03-21-2020 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5521 by Faith
03-21-2020 2:22 PM


Re: The Administration is out of control
Faith writes:
You're asking a lot of questions and doing a lot of speculating. I don't know the answers, you don't knjow the answers.
I raised the same issues raised in the article that you were ignoring. I asked a single question (the second was rhetorical).
Did you not hear the press briefing today where Trump said that henceforth the federal government would drop out of any bidding where they were competing against states? Apparently I do know the answers.
Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5521 by Faith, posted 03-21-2020 2:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5532 of 5796 (874007)
03-23-2020 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5508 by Percy
03-20-2020 10:55 AM


Re: Is the Cure Worse Than the Disease?
Geez, this is scary, Trump agrees with something I said: Trump Says Coronavirus Cure Cannot ‘Be Worse Than the Problem Itself’ - The New York Times, see message subtitle. Of course, I was just raising a possibility for consideration, but Trump is inconstant and has trouble staying a course. Just as has been noted, he's guided by whatever he thinks will give him the most positive play in the news cycle:
quote:
But at the White House, in recent days, there has been a growing sentiment that medical experts were allowed to set policy that has hurt the economy, and there has been a push to find ways to let people start returning to work. Some Republican lawmakers have also pleaded with the White House to find ways to restart the economy, as financial markets continue to slide and job losses for April could be in the millions.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5508 by Percy, posted 03-20-2020 10:55 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5545 of 5796 (874049)
03-24-2020 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5543 by Faith
03-23-2020 6:27 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
Faith writes:
Not that I can expect civility from a Leftist, but surprise me.
The irony remains strong in this one.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5543 by Faith, posted 03-23-2020 6:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5546 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 11:24 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5549 of 5796 (874078)
03-24-2020 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5546 by Faith
03-24-2020 11:24 AM


Re: Bye-bye America?
Faith writes:
And that wasn't a very civil comment either.
Having a bit of trouble with that mote, I see. And you're questioning the civility but not the accuracy. Interesting.
How about requiring PK to produce the evidence that I said what he says I said.
I'm only a participant in this thread, but it does seem to me that the sentiments you've expressed here and elsewhere were accurately characterized. It isn't as if we met you for the first time yesterday. You've decided to defend inhumanity yet again, so go ahead, defend it and cease the distracting whining.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5546 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5550 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2020 2:05 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 5551 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 2:08 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 5552 of 5796 (874086)
03-24-2020 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5551 by Faith
03-24-2020 2:08 PM


Re: Bye-bye America?
Faith writes:
He accused me of recommending something violent. That requires proof.
What should give you pause isn't whether PaulK can prove it but that everyone here finds it perfectly believable that you did.
See Message 727 of the The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right thread where you were in the middle of defending Ted Nugent's views, which included calls for Obama and Clinton to be tried for treason and hung.
Can we get back to the topic now?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5551 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 2:08 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5570 of 5796 (874166)
03-26-2020 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 5558 by Faith
03-25-2020 7:21 PM


The President Cannot Tell a Truth
Faith writes:
That is definitely a shame, an appalling shame that they censor the President himself.
I think most would agree that it's a shame that the president spreads so much false and inaccurate information about the greatest threat to our nation and the world since World War II.
Typical leftist media that has to make everything political instead of reporting the news.
While your hero does lie and misrepresent incessantly, he had an excellent performance yesterday. Here's a video of the briefing:
I only watched Trump's opening remarks. He scaled back his comments about getting the country back to work early to say that segments of the country could return to work earlier than others, but this is still at odds with the advice of almost all health professionals.
He heaped praise upon himself: "It's hard not to be happy with the job we're doing, I can tell you."
He took shots at the European Union for not purchasing American medical equipment and for not paying enough into NATO. I couldn't check the accuracy of this statement because Google Search results are dominated by recent coronavirus news.
He said that suicides would go up by more in a recession or depression than would be caused by the virus. That is, of course, false. While suicides do rise during economic downturns, and it is more than compensated for by declines in heart related and motor vehicle deaths.
Trump said that FEMA is shipping 9.4 million masks as if it were a large number, not realizing that with five million medical related workers it's less than a one day supply, not even worth mentioning.
But overall I thought Trump's performance was outstanding as measured against expectations. Only one thing he said was overtly false, he blew up at a reporter only once, we've grown inured to his habit of mixing presidential duties with campaigning, and unexpectedly Dr. Fauci was on the podium again, a good sign, but occurring only after Fauci was quoted being very deferential in the press, such as saying he and Trump were agreement, it was just that their goals were different, Trump's being aspirational and his being health.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5558 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 7:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 5573 of 5796 (874175)
03-26-2020 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 5564 by Faith
03-25-2020 7:45 PM


Faith writes:
Such cleverness on the Left. It's not censorship to refuse to report on what the President said because he actually said it anyway. Amazing.
You cry wolf constantly. There's no censorship. They're just not going to broadcast future briefings because the inaccurate and misleading information is impossible to fact check in real time.
We need to get the truth about the coronavirus out to everyone to correct the current dichotomy of opinion where the left takes the pandemic far more seriously than the right. Trump is a prime contributor to misinforming those on the right who for some unfathomable reason still trust him.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5564 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 7:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5576 by Faith, posted 03-26-2020 11:44 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 5574 of 5796 (874176)
03-26-2020 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5565 by Faith
03-25-2020 7:48 PM


Faith writes:
Taking him out of context as usual.
You're talking about this, and none of it is out of context:
Implying he called the virus a hoax,...
Everyone knows he called the Democrats' characterizing the Trump administration response as insufficient was a hoax.
...but what he called a hoax was the media's hysteria about the virus.
No, he said it was the Democrat's new hoax, comparing it to the impeachment, which he also calls a hoax. And "hysteria" is your word. The statements of Democrats and the media that the Trump administration was playing down the virus threat was not a hoax. It was true and not hysteria at all.
Saying he refused to take responsibility as if he said it about the virus itself when he was talking about a particular decision to eliminate some office or other which wasn't his responsibility.
Everyone knows he was refusing to take responsibility for the lag in testing, and no one would think it makes any sense to blame any particular person, including the president, for the virus, though Trump does seem to believe it makes sense to blame China. Pompeo's recent insistence that the virus be referred to as the Wuhan Virus prevented the signing of a joint communique with European allies - great job.
Do you people ever care about the truth?
The irony is strong in this one. Once again you have made it through an entire post without saying anything true. Or even quoting anything. Your word is worth nothing.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5565 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 7:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5575 by Faith, posted 03-26-2020 11:42 AM Percy has replied
 Message 5577 by jar, posted 03-26-2020 11:48 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5605 of 5796 (874261)
03-27-2020 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 5575 by Faith
03-26-2020 11:42 AM


Re: It was the WuHan virus to everybody until Trump used it, then it was racism.
Faith writes:
Democrats, media, all the same thing really.
What you mean is that you lump together everyone and everything you disagree with.
The video is edited to make it impossible to get exactly what he is saying so they can claim he was downplaying the virus itself. No he was objecting to the usual political attacks on him.
If it's "impossible to get exactly what he is saying" then how was I able to explain everything he said? You know, all the stuff in my message that you're ignoring.
And why is everybody suddenly upset about calling it the Wuhan or China virus when that is what EVERYBODY was calling it when it was first identified.
I don't recall anyone calling it the Wuhan virus or the China virus, though my recollection of news articles from January or February has faded. Perhaps your rightwing talk shows were calling it that. Remember, you don't read the news - you think it's all fake.
What I do recall is news articles describing a novel and particularly virulent coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, China.
Horrific hypocrisy here.
Well, yes, and fabrication too. When are you going to stop? You're just like your hero: invent an accusation, then falsely issue condemnations.
It came from China, other pandemics have also been called by their source.
I see the falsehoods are just going to continue to mount. Care to tell us what other pandemics those were? There was the 2009-10 swine flu. Before that there was the 1918 Spanish Flu, called that because that's where it first received significant press attention, not because it originated there.
It was China's attempt to cover it up that allowed it to spread so far so fast and some are saying they should be made to pay for it, a trillion or so to the WHO.
China should be condemned for any actions they took or failed to take that left the world less time to prepare. There's no way to punish countries who withhold information about an impending crisis.
Aren't you tired of the Trump flip-flops? He's just trying to dominate the news cycle. One week he's calling it the China virus, the next he's announcing new cooperation with China: Trump and Xi Pledge to Cooperate to Fight Coronavirus After Phone Call | Time
Of course they won't but it should be made clear that it is their responsibility and that they owe it. Either their creepy "wet markets" were its source or their creepy bio warfare lab was its source, but its source was China and its spread was due to their politically motivated negligence.
You've been listening to rightwing conspiracy programming again.
There is no evidence it was engineered (https://www.sciencedaily.com/...ses/2020/03/200317175442.htm). One origin possibility is bats, another is an asian armadillo-like creature, another is wholly human. While the first known occurrence was Wuhan, China, and that region is certainly a possibility, the actual geographic origin has not yet been established with any certainty and may never be.
Calling it the China virus is just Trump playing his same old blame game. We see it over and over again. That's his MO, invent an accusation and give it a name. There's never any substance. Why do you keep falling for playground level stuff appropriate for 8-year olds?
You have once again managed to get through an entire post without saying anything true.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5575 by Faith, posted 03-26-2020 11:42 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5606 of 5796 (874263)
03-27-2020 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5576 by Faith
03-26-2020 11:44 AM


Faith writes:
It's partisan / politically motivated censorship.
So "Is too!" is all you can say? You have no defense for all the Trump lies and misrepresentations?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5576 by Faith, posted 03-26-2020 11:44 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 5614 of 5796 (874290)
03-28-2020 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5611 by Faith
03-28-2020 9:53 AM


Re: Disappointment in Trump from the Right Side
Faith writes:
Forcing a company like GM to produce ventilators is over the top. They volunteered to do it and then it seems had to pull back from their initial promise, and it's not clear why. Instead of the original 24,000 they offiered they pulled back to only 6,000 and said it was going to cost more too. We haven't heard their explanation as far as I know, all we've heard is that Trump is now going to use government power to require of them what they seem to be saying is beyond their ability. he called them unpatriotic although they had volunteered to help. Apparently turned out to be more than they could pull off but now they are being forced, Communist style, to do it anyway. There's something wrong with this picture.
A sane and accurate statement? Who are you?
I don't know where the 24,000 figure came from, but GM never volunteered to manufacture ventilators, see https://www.nasdaq.com/...tors-to-battle-covid-19-2020-03-21 from a week ago:
quote:
The company said Friday evening that it was leveraging its logistics, purchasing, and manufacturing expertise to assist health-care equipment maker Ventec to increase output.
Somehow the fact that GM was only volunteering to help a ventilator manufacturer to increase production has gotten lost.
Then there was the big complaint about a Congressman named Massey who was objecting to the House's voting with mere yeas and nays on such an enormous bill as this $2.2 Trillion relief bill. Massey wanted the normal constitutionally required roll call vote so that it would be clear to constituents who voted for and who against this enormous outlay of money. And Trump joined in the denouncing of this man who was asking for normal accountability in the House, also calling him unpatriotic. There is something wrong with this picture.
More sanity? What have you done with Faith?
Now that you've finally become aware of the Trump blame, censure and accuse machine in the case of a Republican congressman, is it possible it will become more evident to you in the future?
Trump's signing the bill at all is hard to defend. It's depressing to hear the rationalizations for accepting the adding on of purely partisan projects, such as Planned Parenthood, NPR, Kennedy Center, things that should be separately voted on at a different time.
I had a feeling it wouldn't last. The bill is anti-Planned Parenthood, see Coronavirus aid bill passes Senate, blocks loans to Planned Parenthood - CatholicCitizens.org. NPR isn't mentioned in the bill, see Coronavirus Bill: Read The Full Text : NPR, there's a search capability so you don't have to actually read the whole thing. The Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts is a public/private partnership, and the bill spells out policy for the government portion of its maintenance and its employees during the crisis.
It's depressing to think they can cram stuff like that down our throats so easily, and depressing to think Trump felt he had to accept whatever was left of it after they got rid of some of it. Depressing that Republican senators accepted it, depressing that at least one of them added his own pork to it. Although they managed to pare down some of it, the final result still has money it for causes dear to the Left that have nothing whatever to do with economic loss due to the virus. The point is supposed to be aiding people who have lost their income due to the quarantining. Such pork should not be allowed in the first place and one caller into one of the conservative talk shows said he's working on a bill to prevent it, making all spending bills clearly defined for particular purposes. This should have been done decades ago, I wonder what its chances are now.
Hey, cheer up, at least they won't be lending Planned Parenthood any money.
Is Trump giving in to the wrong advisers or what?
Trump almost always follows his own counsel. The only exceptions seem to be that he's especially vulnerable to misinformation and bad advice from Kushner and Giuliani. There does seem to be a general rule that he ignores good advice and information and accepts bad.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5611 by Faith, posted 03-28-2020 9:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5615 by Faith, posted 03-28-2020 5:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5621 of 5796 (874303)
03-28-2020 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 5586 by Faith
03-26-2020 12:21 PM


You posted two very similar messages. Responding first to Message 5579:
Faith writes:
Trump responded more rapidly and effectively than any other President to any similar situation. Obama didn't declare a national emergency on the swine flu for six months and then there were no travel bans or any other provisions that I remember.
Looking this up (something you should try now and then, see 2009 swine flu pandemic in the United States - Wikipedia). Obama declared a health emergency in April of 2009 and a national emergency six months later in October. Because the world was aware of the swine flu virus early in the year a vaccine became available before the end of the year, though supplies were short in the US and decisions about who to administer it to were carefully managed. The number of deaths due to swine flu were as high as they were because of the large number of people infected, not because it was particularly deadly. In fact, in the end it turned out to be far less deadly than the standard flu, around .02%. The mortality rate for the flu is around .1%.
Coronavirus is far more contagious, virulent and deadly than the swine flu. That's why during the swine flu there were no school or business closings, no advisories not to congregate in groups larger than 10, no mask, glove, scrubs and ventilator shortage.
Under pressure from states and from advisers, Trump declared a health emergency at the end of January and a national emergency on March 13. That's a much shorter time between the two events than for the swine flu, but the speed and virulence forced Trump to quickly take such actions. He definitely was not in front of events, what little time he did have was squandered in denying the dangers.
Now responding to Message 5586:
Faith writes:
That quote is what I've heard,...
But because of your choice of sources what you usually hear is wrong.
...that Obama didn't declare a national emergency until October after I think it was 10,000 had already died.
That is very unlikely as the swine flu was only then taking off and it lasted six more months. Wikipedia contradicts you:
quote:
These deaths totaled at 4,000 as of November 15, 2009. (Later reaching 12,469 American deaths, as of 03/2020 according to the WHO).
Perhaps there are reasonable explanations for that but the point is that Trump did act very quickly and yet he's not credited with that.
Trump reacted quickly because circumstances forced him to act quickly. He delayed as long as he could with false assurances, assurances that his advisers told him were false, such as that it was fully contained, that the US was safe, that it would just move through and we'd barely notice it, that the few cases we had would soon become zero, and so forth. You can't deny he said these things because they're all on YouTube. A number of these videos have already been posted here or to the Coronavirus and Pandemics thread, and of course they were all reported in the news at the time he said them.
Trump is repeating the same error now with Pollyanna-ish declarations of hope that the country will reopen around Easter. He's sniping with governors. He's maligning congressmen. He's changing his mind constantly from one day to the next. He's getting distracted by Venezuela. He should instead be focused on preparing and mobilizing the country for the reality of what is to come.
Frako was pretty sure you don't understand exponentials, and I think he's right, but here's the most recent graph of US infections again:
As that line climbs upward and toward the right you can see that as you trace the line upward that the distance between points grows ever larger. A slowing will be indicated by the distance becoming less, and that's exactly what you see with that last point in the upper right corner. Is that just the kind of variation normally seen in real world data, perhaps an artifact of data gathering as we move into the weekend, or is it real and has the infection rate begun to slow? No way to know yet, tune in tomorrow.
By the way, when you said in another post that there's no way to know the progression of the disease, that's dead wrong. There's a whole science of how diseases progress through populations called epidemiology that is extremely data driven. It's how we knew that without a vaccine that the disease would spread throughout the world and that serious mitigation like social distancing and so forth would be necessary. We knew and know plenty, and denying it is just ignorance.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Punctuation.
Edited by Percy, : Grammar, typo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5586 by Faith, posted 03-26-2020 12:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5624 by Faith, posted 03-29-2020 1:58 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 5622 of 5796 (874304)
03-28-2020 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5619 by Faith
03-28-2020 5:58 PM


Re: Disappointment in Trump from the Right Side
Faith writes:
Oh good grief, I knew some of the pork got thrown out so why mention PP at all if it was thrown out? It didn't belong there, it's out, great.
Don't ask us, ask the Republicans. The only reason we're talking about this is because you erroneously claimed that the coronavirus bill added Planned Parenthood as a "purely partisan project" when it actually further penalized them. Just concede the error and move on.
It's a wonder you never tire of always getting things wrong. You spend half your time making erroneous statements and the other half defending the indefensible. There's a whole reality out there, you should try it some time.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Punctuation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5619 by Faith, posted 03-28-2020 5:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5623 by Faith, posted 03-29-2020 1:56 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5626 of 5796 (874323)
03-29-2020 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 5623 by Faith
03-29-2020 1:56 AM


Re: Disappointment in Trump from the Right Side
Yes, we know: make error, defend error endlessly, repeat.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5623 by Faith, posted 03-29-2020 1:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
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