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Author Topic:   Moral issues and the Justice system or something like that
Faith 
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Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 166 of 171 (874524)
04-05-2020 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by GDR
04-04-2020 11:37 PM


Re: bias/feelings over evidence rule here, buttressed by more bias/feelings over evidence
Hi GDR,
I don't want to discuss this old topic on this thread so I've moved your post to a new Coffee House thread, Continuing the Endless Discussion between GDR and traditional Protestantism, which I'll try to get back and answer later this evening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by GDR, posted 04-04-2020 11:37 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16188
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 167 of 171 (874525)
04-05-2020 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
04-04-2020 11:07 PM


Re: Making a Murderer, Making One Cynical EvC Member
quote:
Nothing new in this but the film series is bringing out things I've been through for years. Not that I care a whole lot about myself although of course that has to be part of it..

I guess you must feel for the prosecutors. While they got away with it for a time they were eventually exposed. You don’t get away with it much, although I can remember a few instances of foolishly assuming that you were representing your sources accurately.

quote:
... I don't care that much about me despite all the snark I get along those lines, the disappointing thing is the unfairness itself, the fact that ideology prevails no matter what

The truth seems to keep winning. Sorry you don’t like that. The why should we prefer to believe your inventions ?

quote:
And saying this, which I do from time to time, only gets more of the same snark, unfairness and ideological stupidity I'm talking about

Because you are lying. And obviously so.

I mean you tell us that there is something absurd about rocks “representing” a time period. But you can’t say what is wrong with the idea that rocks consist of material that was deposited in a particular period of time or that we can derive evidence about that time from the rocks. Which is all it is. Offering a silly strawman would be one thing but you haven’t even managed to produce that.

There is nothing unfair in our rejection of that claim. Ideology - other than a concern for the truth - has no part in it.

quote:
It's tempting over and over again to try to get through such falseness and find out that people really aren't that closed in their little boxes after all, but it keeps turning out that they are.

Except you never identify any real “falseness”. You just stick yourself in your little box and refuse to let the truth get in. Let us not forget that you are the one who tries to exclude evidence.

quote:
And here comes the tit for tats and all the rest of it. Retch.

Yeah, the truth makes you sick. What a surprise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 04-04-2020 11:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 168 of 171 (874526)
04-05-2020 1:53 AM


So They Made Their Murderer After All
The worst possibility was realized as I feared from the beginning of this last episode could happen. The lawyer Kathleen, says she isn't giving up, and she still has faith in the system, they just need to be given the evidence and they haven't received it despite all her efforts to present it.

I can't accept that after seeing this series. Corruption won, liars and deceivers won. In some cases you could say that understandably confused people won but they had so many chances just to follow the rules when instead they chose to ignore them and completely fabricate the evidence or just follow their own emotions. No, it's all corruption, corruption won no matter how you look at it. The rules are lovely but if you prefer to follow your own feelings and inclinations instead of following the rules then the rules might as well not exist.

I think it takes some kind of mental disorder to fail to see the coercion of the boy in his taped "confession." That alone shows the inevitability of lies prevailing over truth. How could anyone in their right mind not see what happened in that interrogation? That all by itself makes faith in the system a fool's errand, and faith in humanity laughable.

There is no Part 3, yet anyway. I suppose they'll make one. Maybe eventually they'll succeed in getting across the truth after two completely innocent men have been falsely imprisoned for decades and vilified by ignorant people as guilty of a horrific crime it's even doubtful either of them could have imagined let alone committed.

Not one person with a shred of integrity on the side that prosecuted them, not one who saw the evidence in this film, or even on that taped confession, had his/her eyes opened to see the gross injustice that has been done and is now conscience-driven to try to right the wrong. Not one so far. Where are they?

Some people see it, even some judges, but they have been outvoted by the corrupt and deluded. How very fallen is this fallen world. I may have cried more tears in this story than in any other I've ever watched. There is supposed to be a happy ending to such a story but this one is a case of corruption feeding corruption until the truth didn't stand a chance.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 04-06-2020 11:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 169 of 171 (874576)
04-06-2020 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
04-05-2020 1:53 AM


Re: So They Made Their Murderer After All
I had been avoiding this series at Netflix for a long time because I was tired of murder mysteries, but then Rush Limbaugh who has been home lately because of cancer treatments said how compelling it is. That's why I watched it. And I still feel like I've been punched in the stomach after the end of it. That's how Kathleen Zellner the lawyer so committed to freeing these men said she felt when she lost an appeal in a previous case. This kind of situation can destroy all faith in people and the legal system. There are still options though so I can hope for that.

It does, yes it does, remind me of the success of corruption in so many areas of life, such as the Left's corrupt attacks on the Trump administration. They haven't been successful beyond being noisy interruptions of life so far but it's easy to see how they could get there. It is scary that this can happn in any arena.

Anyway I need a Part 3 which releases these innocent men and records how they sued the powers that be and won bazillions in damages.

I also need a new movie to watch.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 04-05-2020 1:53 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 170 of 171 (874590)
04-06-2020 2:07 PM


Nature is so often the cure for human misery
This is so charming I can't stop listening to it myself and kept wanting to find a place to post it here. There really isn't a good place but since it's intended as a note of joy, peace and humor in unhappy circumstances this thread will probably do. I hope you all enjoy it.


  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 171 of 171 (874680)
04-08-2020 4:07 AM


IQ
Thinking about these men who were wrongly convicted of murder. Both have very low IQs, are called "slow learners." And I keep trying to understand what that really means. I assume it means some deficiencies in problem solving but in everyday life they both seem to have the ability to think through situations and communicate well enough. I don't know at what point I would recognize an IQ deficiency in a conversation with such a person. When, how, would it manifest? I guess I'm puzzling about this because I'm not sure I've ever spent much time with such a person. I'm not even sure what I'm puzzling about, or what I'm asking, it just became something about them that I don't think I grasp.

Steven Avery went to the law library in prison and studied the law related to his own situation enough to be able to submit some kind of appeal or claim to the court on his own behalf. That seems like a pretty decent intelligence. His nephew Brendan, who was so clearly coerced in the interrogation,, who supposedly has a somewhat higher IQ, does seem slow to grasp the meaning of questions about his situation. Again I'm not sure why this has captured my attention to this extent.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


  
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