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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
dwise1
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Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5691 of 5796 (874732)
04-08-2020 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 5686 by PaulK
04-08-2020 2:47 PM


Re: John Oliver on OAN misinformation idiocy
And, I’ll note that it’s New York where the problem started getting really bad, not San Francisco.
Even though the earliest reported cases were in Washington State, California, and New York, Washington and California took action much earlier than New York. For that matter, I recall that San Francisco ordered a lock-down very early on. I heard of Seattle implementing measures around the same time, and the rest of California following suit.
As a result, California has been able to slow the spread which should flatten out the curve and keep the case load from overwhelming our hospitals, which is what we're seeing play out in New York City. My understanding is that Seattle has had similar success. It's not over yet and it will get worse, but hopefully not much worse.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5694 of 5796 (874735)
04-08-2020 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 5690 by RAZD
04-08-2020 3:34 PM


Re: chinavirus idiocy
... and that the label "chinavirus" was misleading, leading to racist violence against chinese-americans.
Does that mean that we should be seeing more anti-Mexican violence around Cinco de Mayo? Because of Corona beer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5690 by RAZD, posted 04-08-2020 3:34 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5702 of 5796 (874748)
04-08-2020 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 5701 by frako
04-08-2020 8:29 PM


Re: the Cathedral of Saint John the Divine
A growing feature on Facebook are reports of pastors and others who denounce corona virus as a hoax and engage in packed gatherings ... who have now died of the virus.
Should their life insurance companies all refuse to pay on their policies because they had committed suicide?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5701 by frako, posted 04-08-2020 8:29 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
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Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5733 of 5796 (874821)
04-10-2020 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5727 by JonF
04-10-2020 4:55 PM


Re: Could he be stupider?
Joke's on him! Antibiotics don't work on a virus.
Now OTOH, a vaccine ... .
Though he does have a point about the virus being so much smarter ... than Trump.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
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Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 5739 of 5796 (874850)
04-11-2020 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 5737 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:27 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Said big mistake to close the schools because children need to be exposed to develop immunity, that the people who should be protected are the elderly and others known to be vulnerable.
That's the kind of right-wingnut nonsense that's going to get people killed. Everybody who has ever had children knows full well what effective disease vectors they are.
So, your plan is to send the kids out to get exposed to COVID-19 and bring it back into the house, infecting their parents and, most of all, their grandparents. You want to have them infect the very people you hypocritically claim to want to protect.
Levin was also talking about how the numbers of infections and deaths are terribly inflated, how other causes of death are often not distinguished from the virus, ...
Actually, the numbers of infections and deaths due to COVID-19 are undercounted. Because we are failing miserably to test for the disease. Because we are not testing patients unless they show definite symptoms. If the patient infected with COVID-19 recovers before he got too far gone for them to ration a test out to him, then he doesn't get counted as having been infected with it. And if he dies before the results of the test come back positive, then his death is not counted as having been due to COVID-19.
... how people who need other kinds of medical attention aren't getting it because everything is dedicated to the virus..
That is true. But the reason why everything is dedicated to the virus is because it is a massive public health emergency which is overwhelming our healthcare systems. Also, it is so contagious that anyone going into the hospital for other problems face a very real danger of becoming infected. Every hospital would need to be very strictly segregated between COVID and non-COVID, which in some facilities would be impossible and in other facilities doable except for the lack of sufficient PPE (personal protection equipment) -- protocol calls for PPE to be discarded and replaced after each patient, but since replacement PPE is virtually non-existent that cannot be done.
Also, Levin is conflating two very different kinds of "other kinds of medical attention". Elective treatment is the kind of medical attention that is being postponed until this Scheisturm is past us -- if it can wait, then it needs to wait.
However, medical emergencies are still emergencies that cannot wait and will not wait. Part of the plan is to establish medical facilities that will handle non-COVID emergencies. That is why the hospital ships, USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort, have been deployed specifically to handle non-COVID cases. And the US Army Corps of Engineers has finally been deployed to construct temporary medical facilities -- primarily for handling non-COVID emergency cases, but a number of them have been converted to handle COVID cases in response to overflow at COVID facilities.
Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, Chief of Engineers and commanding general of the Army Corps of Engineers, has been interviewed by Rachel Maddow among others. In his second appearance, she introduced him by saying that they had never seen that kind of viewer response to his first appearance. I have absolutely no doubt that you will refuse to watch him, because we all know how utterly feckless you are. This is for the normals here:
First appearance, 26 Mar 2020 -- Army Corps of Engineers Gives Options To States Facing COVID Crush | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC:
Second appearance, 07 Apr 2020 -- Army Corps Of Engineers Adapts To demands COVID-19 Puts On States | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC:
LtGen Todd Semonite typifies true leadership. He has a mission and his laser-focus goal is to complete that mission. He knows what is at stake, so he knows full well the importance of his mission. He immediately takes charge in order to complete that mission. He doesn't care who you are, what your political leanings are, nor even what you personally think of him, he is a professional and he will work with you in all ways possible in order to complete the mission. Because the mission is of utmost importance.
BTW, the mission is to deal with this pandemic emergency, preserving as many lives as possible, and preserving the United States of America.
Compare that to Cadet Bonespurs. Trump has no mission outside of his own self-serving -- he does not care about LtGen Semonite's mission except for how it might serve him personally (eg, preserve his chances for re-election by keeping him from looking like the total failure that he is). He refuses to take charge, in large part because his mission is not to deal with this national (and global) crisis, but rather his own self-preservation (as well as whatever profiteering he can sneak in) -- but also because even Trump must realize that he actually is totally incompetent and has absolutely no leadership qualities. And since his only mission is self-service, he cares very much who kisses his ass more fervently and who doesn't and he rewards or punishes each one accordingly. Absolute and complete lack of professionalism. Because, in Trump's view, Trump is of utmost importance.
Comparing Trump and LtGen Semonite, the contrast could not possibly be more stark. In this national and international emergency, which one would you rather have in charge?
 
BTW, Faith. Thank you for confirming to us what a complete and utter right-nutwing job Mark Levin is. What a fucking idiot! Now we know with complete confidence to disregard any of his destructive garbage that you might choose to foist upon us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5737 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 11:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5742 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:10 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5740 of 5796 (874857)
04-11-2020 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 5732 by Faith
04-10-2020 8:30 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
that the phelobotomist at Roseland hospital knows her business
But just what exactly is a phelobotomist's business?
A phelobotomist draws a blood sample. Does a phelobotomist also analyze that blood sample? Or is that part of the lab work?
I just Messaged my daughter-in-law, a physician's assistant, with that question. Could take a day or two or few to get that answer.
But in the meantime my guess is that it's not the phelobotomists, but rather the lab technicians who are going to analyze those blood samples who will determine what antibodies are present.
So then just what the fuck is your point, Faith? Superstition and dumb-fuckery over science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5732 by Faith, posted 04-10-2020 8:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5741 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 5:53 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5743 of 5796 (874862)
04-11-2020 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 5736 by Faith
04-10-2020 11:22 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Trump has been following the experts that hve been wrong. They just keep changing their numbers. Other experts are criticizing them but nobody listens to the others.
Typical creationist idiocy!
Of course, trying to explain anything about reality will be completely lost on you, so this is for the normals, the lurkers.
The basic data processing paradigm which is used to design data processing processes is that you have certain kinds of outputs that you expect and you have certain inputs that you have to work with, so your task as a programmer is to come up with the algorithms and processes that will convert the inputs into the outputs.
In a static situation, that is simple. That is the basis of almost every accounting system in existence. As long as you have inputs that do not change over time, you can present constant outputs (eg, the accounting books at the end of an accounting period). Simple and straightforward.
In a dynamic system, it's not so simple. The algorithms and processes (AKA "models") remain, but the inputs are constantly changing (albeit not always in a constant manner) so the outputs are also constantly changing.
What's happening in this pandemic is dynamic. That means that the inputs into the models being used by the experts are changing, which means that the outputs also change. Duh? What part of that are you too feeble-minded to understand?
The typical creationist and fundamentalist mind-set is to accept something as some kind of final and ultimate authority. For example, the Bible is supposed to be some kind of complete and ultimate authority on everything. So then they try to pose Darwin as some kind of complete and ultimate authority on everything relating to evolution. In reality, that is not how it works.
Some kind of Ultimate Divine Authority could command some kind of Ultimate Divine Answer which is equally invariable from it's Ultimate Divine Origin. But that's not what anybody's talking about.
According to fundamentalists, all possible truth was given once and for all, which means that all that could possibly happen is for that truth to degrade and be lost over time.
According to normals, we start with an idea of how the natural world works. From that, we come up with more ideas that we can then test and eliminate or keep, etc.
So if Darwin came up with an idea, normals would examine and develope those ideas beyond what Darwin had originally thought, far beyond.
Fundies instead would require Darwin to have come up with all evolutionary ideas perfectly from the start. That is obviously complete and utter nonsense.
That is why your utterly stupid complaint that scientists' response to changing inputs invalidates their changing conclusions is complete and utter nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 5760 of 5796 (874893)
04-11-2020 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5741 by Faith
04-11-2020 5:53 AM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
All I know is that the phlebotomist in the story reported on the results of her blood samples.
My daughter-in-law is a medical professional, a physician assistant -- in normal hospital life, a PA does all the actual medical work with the patients while the MD is an administrator. She replied to my Facebook message:
quote:
Phlebotomists just draw the blood
Which is exactly what I and others are telling you. The phlebotomist just draws the blood and gives it to the lab technician. The lab tech performs the analysis and gives the results to the physician who interprets the results and reports to whomever (eg, patient, public health agencies). The only way that the phlebotomist would know anything the results would be if the lab tech or physician or public health agency leaked that information back to her, which reduces her knowledge of the results to rumor.
The phlebotomist would be a reliable primary source for information about how much testing she's doing and for her impression of how the test subjects are presenting in general. She is not a reliable primary source for information about the results.
That that article uses the phlebotomist as a primary source instead of using the physician or public health agency makes me suspect the Chicago City Wire.
 
That's reality. That's how things work. But of course you, in your infinite ignorance, will reject reality yet again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5741 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 5:53 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5770 by 14174dm, posted 04-11-2020 10:45 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5763 of 5796 (874898)
04-11-2020 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 5742 by Faith
04-11-2020 6:10 AM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
There's no "plan" ...
It most certainly looked like a plan. Infect the children who in turn spread the infection. Those who survive should have developed immunity and hence build up herd immunity.
The primary problems with that is that that kind of behavior is what has resulted in the NYC hospitals being overwhelmed and in thousands of Americans dying. There's also the problem of not even knowing whether recovering from this virus endows the victim with immunity; there are reports of recovered patients becoming infected again, so this is a very important question that needs more research.
... I merely described what this man said and he was very impressive ...
Considering your long and unbroken history of being very impressed with pure BS, that does nothing to recommend this man and what you report he said.
... the first thing he said was that the vulnerable people need to be protected so there's no idea of children going home to infect grandparents.
So where are they supposed to go? You send them off to school and then lock them out of the house? If they get infected (which is the plan, after all), then letting them come in contact with their parents and other family members will spread the infection to them. When grandparents live with the family (which does happen), then that will indeed infect the grandparents. If not, then those infected family members will infect the grandparents.
And allowing the free spread of infection is what's causing the overwhelming of the healthcare system. Plus, the rest of the family is also vulnerable to getting sick from this and dying. Even the children -- one healthcare worker reported on her 4-year-old son being hospitalized with severe symptoms.
And I didn't quote Levin about the other medical needs so you can drop the accusation of him. He didn't "conflate" anything, I merely made a general statement.
That is a BS lie! Why are you lying to us yet again?
Message 5737
Faith writes:
Levin was also talking about how the numbers of infections and deaths are terribly inflated, how other causes of death are often not distinguished from the virus, how people who need other kinds of medical attention aren't getting it because everything is dedicated to the virus..
In your reporting of what Levin was talking about, he was indeed conflating emergency and non-emergency medical needs. Or were you just lying about that too?
Whichever it is, my description what's actually happening and of how things actually work (ie, reality) is still valid. All you have done has been to try to avoid reality yet again.
Also, thank you for exposing Levin as an unreliable source. Or that your interpretation of what he says is highly unreliable. Either way, we now know with great certainty to reject as nonsense anything you tell us about what he says.
If so the sooner they can be tested for antibodies the better.
Yes! We need testing. Now! Without testing we have almost no chance to get this pandemic under control or to restart the economy.
The problem is that the US is a strong contender for #1 in its failure to test. All empty boastful bluster aside, we've only tested about 1% of the US population. We desperately need widespread and aggressive testing to be able to identify and quarantine the asymptomatic infected as well as the ones with antibodies (ie, had been exposed but recovered).
One of the vital reasons for identifying who has antibodies is so that we can study whether that confers immunity and whether that keeps them from being carriers who could infect others. Our social and economic recovery depends very much on workers who cannot become infected and who will not infect others.
But we cannot get there if we remain ignorant about this disease, which is where we'll remain stuck without testing.
We know that ignorance does not work, because we've already tried it. Far too many times.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5742 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:10 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5765 by JonF, posted 04-11-2020 4:56 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 5764 of 5796 (874899)
04-11-2020 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 5748 by RAZD
04-11-2020 9:05 AM


Re: Volunteers?
Faith writes:
... It's not so much letting it spread as it is trying to keep it limited to people who aren't as vulernable ...
Shall we ask for volunteers?
That are churches filled with those volunteers, especially tomorrow (Easter Sunday).
It's becoming a Facebook meme to post news of yet another denouncer of COVID-19 as a hoax having just died of the disease. Most of them are pastors of churches who encourage their congregations to pack in tightly and make a point of shaking as many hands as possible. Dare we say that that naturally occurring meme is going viral?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5748 by RAZD, posted 04-11-2020 9:05 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5767 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:07 PM dwise1 has replied
 Message 5775 by RAZD, posted 04-12-2020 7:16 AM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5766 of 5796 (874901)
04-11-2020 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 5765 by JonF
04-11-2020 4:56 PM


Re: Chicago area hospital drive-thru tests more people with antibodies than active virus
Of course Trump addressed this need by trying to get the Feds out of the testing business. That was too much for a lot of people.
I had heard that testing sites were having to close because Trump was pulling funding for them.
Absolute insanity! Why would he do such a thing? All I could think was that he was reverting to his reasoning? during the issue of letting passengers off that cruise ship off of California where he didn't want them to increase the official number of infections because that would make him look bad. More complete testing will inevitably increase the official number of infected Americans, and so, what, he's afraid that will make him look even worse?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5765 by JonF, posted 04-11-2020 4:56 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5773 of 5796 (874931)
04-12-2020 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5767 by Faith
04-11-2020 6:07 PM


Re: Volunteers?
Well at least if they are true believers they get to go and be with Jesus.
Even if that were the case, what about all the people they killed with their stupidity? Some of the bad and sudden outbreaks have been traced back to large packed churches.
But my bet is it's very few churches and probably those with a charismatic theology that are engaging in this foolish virus baiting.
Probably more than you think, especially considering the strong Trump support among many evangelicals which resulted in many, including the pastors, calling the virus a hoax (echoing their understanding of Trump's earlier dismissal of the virus) and congregating in large groups and shaking as many hands as possible as a form of protest in support of Trump. In addition, Republican leaders in red states have either held back on banning large gatherings or have tried (and often succeeded) in making religious gatherings exempt from those rules, ignoring the fact that such gatherings have shown to be flashpoints of massive infection.
Their actions are not motivated by religion, but rather by political ideology. If they want to go and "be with Jesus", then fine, let them. But we cannot allow them to take everybody else with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5767 by Faith, posted 04-11-2020 6:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 5779 of 5796 (874964)
04-12-2020 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5775 by RAZD
04-12-2020 7:16 AM


Re: Volunteers?
DWise1 writes:
That are churches filled with those volunteers, especially tomorrow (Easter Sunday).
Are there Mass Darwin Awards?
Darwin Awards are for removing yourself from the gene pool in very stupid ways. That means doing so before you have reproduced, thus removing your genes for stupidity from the gene pool.
But this particular death-by-stupidity also incurs enormous collateral damage, also killing off thousands whose only stupid act was to live anywhere near those idiots. We need a judgment call on this one.
 
I just found a likely answer on Wikipedia, Darwin Awards (emphasis added):
quote:
The project became more formalized with the creation of a website in 1993, and followed up by a series of books starting in 2000, authored by Wendy Northcutt. The criterion for the awards states, "In the spirit of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives. Darwin Award winners eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species' chances of long-term survival."
Accidental self-sterilisation also qualifies; however, the site notes: "Of necessity, the award is usually bestowed posthumously." The candidate is disqualified, though, if "innocent bystanders", who might have contributed positively to the gene pool, are killed in the process. The logical problem presented by award winners who may have already reproduced is not addressed in the selection process due to the difficulty of ascertaining if a person has or does not have children; the Darwin Award rules state that the presence of offspring does not disqualify a nominee.
People who have somehow miraculously survived their suicidal idiocy can be given an "Honourable Mention" if their attempted act of self removal is deemed worthy (and humorous).
Since they will kill "innocent bystanders" (very large numbers for that matter), they disqualify themselves.
 
Lower down the page are Wendy Northcutt's five requirements, plus some rules under development:
quote:
Rules
Northcutt has stated five requirements for a Darwin Award:
Inability to reproduce
Nominee must be dead or rendered sterile
This may be subject to dispute. Potential awardees may be out of the gene pool because of age; others have already reproduced before their deaths. To avoid debates about the possibility of in-vitro fertilization, artificial insemination, or cloning, the original Darwin Awards book applied the following "deserted island" test to potential winners: If the person were unable to reproduce when stranded on a deserted island with a fertile member of the opposite sex, he or she would be considered sterile. Winners of the award, in general, either are dead or have become unable to use their sexual organs.
Excellence
Astoundingly stupid judgement
The candidate's foolishness must be unique and sensational, likely because the award is intended to be funny. A number of foolish but common activities, such as smoking in bed, are excluded from consideration. In contrast, self-immolation caused by smoking after being administered a flammable ointment in a hospital and specifically told not to smoke is grounds for nomination. One "Honourable Mention" (a man who attempted suicide by swallowing nitroglycerine pills, and then tried to detonate them by running into a wall) is noted to be in this category, despite being intentional and self-inflicted (i.e. attempted suicide), which would normally disqualify the inductee.
Self-selection
Cause of one's own demise
Killing a friend with a hand grenade would not be eligible, but killing oneself while manufacturing a home made chimney-cleaning device from a grenade would be eligible. To earn a Darwin Award, one must have killed oneself, or rendered oneself sterile; merely causing death to a third party is insufficient.
Maturity
Capable of sound judgement
The nominee must be at least past the legal driving age and free of mental defect (Northcutt considers injury or death caused by mental defect to be tragic, rather than amusing, and routinely disqualifies such entries). After much discussion, a small category regarding deaths below this age limit also exists. Entry into this category requires that the peers of the candidate be of the opinion that the actions of the person in question were above and beyond the limits of reason.
However, in 2011, the awards targeted a 16-year-old boy in Leeds who died stealing copper wiring (the standard minimum driving age in Great Britain being 17). In 2012, Northcutt made similar light of a 14-year-old girl in Brazil who was killed while leaning out of a school bus window; however, she was "disqualified" for the award itself because of the likely public objection due to the girl's age, which Northcutt asserts is based on "magical thinking".
Veracity
Event must be verified
The story must be documented by reliable sources: e.g., reputable newspaper articles, confirmed television reports, or responsible eyewitnesses. If a story is found to be untrue, it is disqualified, but particularly amusing ones are placed in the urban legend section of the archives. Despite this requirement, many of the stories are fictional, often appearing as "original submissions" and presenting no further sources than unverified (and unreliable) "eyewitnesses". Most such stories on Northcutt's Darwin Awards site are filed in the Personal Accounts section.
Rules under development
In addition, later revisions to the qualification criteria add several requirements that have not been made into formalised ‘rules’:
  • Innocent bystanders cannot be endangered.
  • The qualifying event must be caused without deliberate intent to end the nominee's own life (or fertility). (To discourage notoriety-seekers from injuring themselves purposely, to win a Darwin, despite the evident benefit of such individuals exiting the gene pool.)

So it looks like they are disqualified for Darwin Awards because of the thousands of fit people they will kill, though they might be able to get dishonorable mention (there is no honor in the mass homicide they will engage in).
Share and enjoy!

This message is a reply to:
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