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Author Topic:   Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 151 of 164 (848597)
02-11-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by candle2
02-11-2019 10:35 AM


cabdle2,
re: "The very essence of your question concerns 'time'."

Actually, the essence concerns the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have been.

re: "To assume that 3 days & 3 nights is equal to 1 day and 2 nights takes a leap of faith.

Indeed.

re: "I would gladly go out of my way to find examples (assuming there are any), if you show me why you or anyone else refuse to believe what Matthew so clearly stated"

I don't know about anyone else, but I see no reason to disbelieve Matthew's account.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 10:35 AM candle2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 5:56 PM rstrats has responded

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 152 of 164 (848602)
02-11-2019 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by rstrats
02-11-2019 4:47 PM


The term "three days and three night" is not ambiguous.

Matthew could not have been any clearer. There is no better or more concise way to say "three days and three nights" than to say "three days and three nights."

To break one of the 10Commandments is the same as breaking them all. The attack on the 7th day Sabbath is the easiest one for Satan to attack.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by rstrats, posted 02-11-2019 4:47 PM rstrats has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by rstrats, posted 02-11-2019 6:33 PM candle2 has responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 153 of 164 (848603)
02-11-2019 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by candle2
02-11-2019 5:56 PM


candle2,

I'm afraid I don't see what your comments have to do with this topic. I wonder if you might explain why you think that they do?

Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by candle2, posted 02-12-2019 6:40 AM rstrats has responded

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 154 of 164 (848611)
02-12-2019 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by rstrats
02-11-2019 6:33 PM


In your original post you asked for "other instances" where a period of one day and three nights was in JIL commonly referred to as "3 days & 3 nights

My point is that you don't even have one instance, certainly not Matthew 12:39-40.

In any event, if you are seeking examples of this in JIL, you must also look for examples of it in the Hebrew language in use at the time of Jonah

After all, Jesus and Jonah were dead for the same amount of time.

But, this is your post and your question, and I respect that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by rstrats, posted 02-11-2019 6:33 PM rstrats has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by rstrats, posted 02-12-2019 7:55 AM candle2 has responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 155 of 164 (848617)
02-12-2019 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by candle2
02-12-2019 6:40 AM


candle2,
re: "In your original post you asked for 'other instances' where a period of one day and three nights was in JIL commonly referred to as '3 days & 3 nights"

I don't see where I asked that. What do you have in mind?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by candle2, posted 02-12-2019 6:40 AM candle2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by candle2, posted 06-24-2019 12:05 PM rstrats has responded

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 156 of 164 (855872)
06-24-2019 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by rstrats
02-12-2019 7:55 AM


I would like to know if anyone is aware of instances in which an individual used "common" sense language to express "3 days & 3 nights," when this is exactly what that individual meant.

No one, not even an idiot, would use the phrase "3 days & 3 nights" when referring to 36 hours, or one day and two nights.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by rstrats, posted 02-12-2019 7:55 AM rstrats has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by rstrats, posted 06-24-2019 1:36 PM candle2 has not yet responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 157 of 164 (855877)
06-24-2019 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by candle2
06-24-2019 12:05 PM


candle2,

You say that you "would like to know if anyone is aware of instances in which an individual used 'common' sense language to express '3 days & 3 nights,' when this is exactly what that individual meant."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. I wonder if you might word it differently?

BTW, you have a question directed to you in post #153.

Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.


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 Message 156 by candle2, posted 06-24-2019 12:05 PM candle2 has not yet responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 158 of 164 (870800)
01-25-2020 7:38 AM


Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:50 PM rstrats has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13937
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 159 of 164 (870869)
01-25-2020 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by rstrats
01-25-2020 7:38 AM


I say move on from this topic. Its boring. You can keep waiting for someone new to show up, however. Its now been years.
quote:
Phat writes:

"Sure. Looking back through this topic of yours, I see your prime motivation.


From what you've written I don't think that you do.

Phat writes:

"jar brings up the point of 'so what'?"

That's an issue for a different topic.

Phat writes:

" Basically, he was answering your question by agreeing with you that there likely was no example of common Jewish idiomatic speech."

He couldn't have been agreeing with me because I never said that.

"So I guess my question is why keep the topic going?"

Because there is always the possibility that someone new may visit this topic.

"What are the implications if your argument [assertion] is true?"

My assertion is that for someone to say that the Messiah was employing the common figure of speech/colloquial language, then the person would have to know of examples in order to legitimately make the assertion of commonality. So if that is true, then it's more than an implication - it's a fact.

"Do you believe that the Bible is in any way inerrant, reliable, or accurate in its claims?"

I have no belief one way or the other with regard to your question. It is, however, an issue for a different topic.

"If your three points can be accepted, what is your ending conclusion?"

That my curiosity would be satisfied with regard to the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.

Phat writes:

"I will compliment you though for hanging in there with EvC for over three years!"

Thanks. I kinda pride myself on having the patience ability.


So here we are and you are still patient. Don't you have anything new to discuss with us, however? Surely you could get a decent topic exchange going on a topic other than this one...

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by rstrats, posted 01-25-2020 7:38 AM rstrats has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by rstrats, posted 01-26-2020 6:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 161 by WookieeB, posted 01-27-2020 6:35 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 160 of 164 (870899)
01-26-2020 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
01-25-2020 3:50 PM


Thugpreacha,
re: "I say move on from this topic. Its boring."

Might I then suggest that you just ignore it, especially since it appears that it doesn't apply to you.

re: "You can keep waiting for someone new to show up..."

OK, thanks.

re: "Don't you have anything new to discuss with us...?"

Not at the moment.

re: "Surely you could get a decent topic exchange going on a topic other than this one...?

This topic is not intended for exchanges going on. It merely is asking for examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. No discussion is necessary.

Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:50 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
WookieeB
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: 01-18-2019


Message 161 of 164 (871060)
01-27-2020 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
01-25-2020 3:50 PM


I personally think it is probably just an idiom of speech that people of that time recognized as meaning 'parts of three days', as other Hebrew scriptures often use a phrase of "three days' but dpn't require meaning 72 hours. And after all, none of the other gospel writers or the apostle Paul ever mentioned the specifics of the time periods other than referring to the time as just "three days". Nor does it appear anyone from that time period balking over the language's possible technical meaning.

Nevertheless, there is a way to explain it so that there are 3 actual nights being involved. But you have to drop an assumption being made.

re: 3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body.

If the "heart of the earth" doesn't refer to only his being dead in the tomb, but also includes the time period where he was restrained, under arrest, and in custody by the authorities, then that would include the events of Thursday night/Friday morning during the night period after the celebration of the Passover he had with this disciples.

Here is a good explanation of it - What Does it Mean When Jesus says 3 days and 3 nights?


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rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 162 of 164 (871074)
01-28-2020 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by WookieeB
01-27-2020 6:35 PM


WookieeB,
re: "Nevertheless, there is a way to explain it so that there are 3 actual nights being involved."

That would be an issue for a different topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by WookieeB, posted 01-27-2020 6:35 PM WookieeB has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by candle2, posted 04-26-2020 7:10 AM rstrats has responded

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 163 of 164 (875437)
04-26-2020 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by rstrats
01-28-2020 7:46 AM


Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to say that there is a way to say "3 days and 3 nights" when in fact only 1 day and 2 nights has elaspsed?

What if I offered you three 1 ounce gold coins and three 1 ounce silver coins for a certain car
but only gave you one gold coin and two silver coins. Would you then be gullible enough to hand over the car?

Or, would common sense prevent you from doing so?

Why are so willing to believe that Matthew, who was entrusted with the words of God, and who wrote by the power of the Holy Spirit, would record such a blatant lie?

Jesus was placed in the tomb just before the "going down of the sun" on Wednesday. The following day, which was perhaps mere minutes from beginning, was the annual high Sabbath-the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Jesus Rose from the tomb late on the weekly Sabbath--Saturday, just before the "going down of the sun." "3 days and 3 nights" ,exactly. Just as Matthew recorded.

All New Testament scripture supports this fact.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by rstrats, posted 01-28-2020 7:46 AM rstrats has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by rstrats, posted 04-26-2020 7:24 AM candle2 has not yet responded

  
rstrats
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 164 of 164 (875438)
04-26-2020 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by candle2
04-26-2020 7:10 AM


candle2,
re: "Jesus was placed in the tomb just before the 'going down of the sun' on Wednesday."

That is an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

But maybe someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by candle2, posted 04-26-2020 7:10 AM candle2 has not yet responded

  
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