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Author Topic:   Coronavirus and Pandemics
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 616 of 955 (875319)
04-22-2020 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by Percy
04-18-2020 4:06 PM


Re: The Testing Issue
Nothing much to say today except to express my disappointment at the several expressions here that I'm exaggerating the dangers of the coronavirus. Here's the latest bar graph of the number of new cases per day:
That last bump upward could have several contributors. One is the recent demonstrations against the mitigation restrictions, but I think those were far too small and too recent to have had an impact. Another is the push by both the president and a number of Republican governors for loosening restrictions sooner rather than later. I do think that has had time to make a contribution to the tick upward.
But my hope is that the primary contributor is increased testing.
One of the states inexplicably loosening restrictions is Georgia. Here's their map from ArcGIS Dashboards Classic:
Georgia has an infection rate of .2% and a fatality rate of 4%. Loosening restrictions means their infection rate will rise, and 4% of a larger number means more fatalities.
Some have argued that the increased mortality and permanent effects are just the price we pay for keeping our economy strong enough to prevent it from having its own impact on mortality. This is the "cure is worse than the disease" argument.
This thinking is partly based on the assumption that catching and surviving the coronavirus confers immunity. Obviously this is true in the short term. Anyone who has fought off the virus obviously has immunity, otherwise they'd still be sick. But we're not sure how long that immunity lasts. Some viruses we catch and fight off provide us a lifetime of immunity. Others confer only temporary immunity, and our experience with other coronaviruses is that they fit in this category. Immunity seems to last for about six months to a year.
This means that if we were to allow the coronavirus to just wash across the country and cause a few million deaths and enough infections so that more than 65 or 70% have immunity, which is the threshold for herd immunity for this type of virus, that that herd immunity would be gone within a year. This might be okay if we actually have a vaccine by then, but vaccine's take from 12 to 18 months minimum, so that's an iffy proposition. The coronavirus washing across the country a second time is one of the likely possibilities.
As I said in an earlier post, those states which loosen restrictions will begin to see statistics that reflect their climbing infection rates in about three weeks. We know what states those will be: Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Florida. Trump, ever the liar, was speaking nonsense when he announced this morning that these states were "safely coming back." There's no expanded testing nor expanded PPE, so they could not possibly be safely coming back, and even if they were it requires several weeks before you could know. Trump knows they're safely coming back in the same way he knew that if you wanted a test you could get a test, or that the number of cases in the US would soon drop to zero, or that you've got nothing to lose (other than your life) by taking hydroxychloroquine. The number of coronavirus deaths just passed 45,000. Here's a nice graph of daily deaths from The Washington Post (the bump up in mid April was due to a reporting change when New York City changed the way they classified cause of death, but otherwise we seem to have plateaued for now at about 2000 deaths/day):
Here's a map of deaths per 100,000 population across the US. Does it really look like Georgia should be loosening? I guess you could argue about the other states, but Georgia?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Percy, posted 04-18-2020 4:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by Big_Al35, posted 04-24-2020 10:50 AM Percy has replied
 Message 620 by Coragyps, posted 04-24-2020 7:06 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 618 of 955 (875371)
04-24-2020 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Big_Al35
04-24-2020 10:50 AM


Re: The Testing Issue
Big-Al35 writes:
I would be interested to know how many people you personally know who have the virus Percy?
Here's enough information for you to figure out the likely answer yourself. 0.2% of people in the US have been diagnosed with coronavirus. I probably personally know maybe 100 people. Do the math.
Also, I live in a state where less than the average are affected. Only 0.1% of the people in NH have been diagnosed with the virus. Do the math.
A retired doctor friend of mine volunteered his services, and he's been assigned to testing. On Monday they tested about thirty teenagers in a group home who are wards of the state. About half tested positive. I of course do not personally know any of these teenagers.
Looking at the statistics for New Hampshire, about 0.17% of people have been diagnosed with the virus in my county. There have been two deaths, a mortality rate of 0.27%. We're doing far better here than Boston or New York, but we're more rural up here, and that will always be the tale with rural areas. Contagions always wreak their havoc in urban centers first and only later advance into the countryside.
But your question says far more about a certain attitude than any answers to the question can tell us about the pandemic. It's an attitude that trusts anecdotal information more than scientifically gathered data and calculated statistics. It's an attitude where a conversation like this makes sense: "I don't know anyone who has the virus, and you don't either, so I guess this is much ado about nothing. Reopen the country already."
You should instead go to sites like ArcGIS Dashboards Classic or the Washington Post's Coronavirus Update Page. Argue from the data. Here's today's graph of daily deaths. We just passed 50,000 total deaths nationwide around an hour ago:
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Big_Al35, posted 04-24-2020 10:50 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by Big_Al35, posted 04-25-2020 3:12 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 621 of 955 (875398)
04-25-2020 8:07 AM


The Latest Data
Here's today's daily death graph:
Here's the projection forward from COVID-19. The shaded area represents error bars:
The error range is from around 50,000 to 120,000 deaths. This particular projection modifies daily. A couple weeks ago it thought the most likely number of deaths was around 60,000, whereas now it's around 68,000.
Trying to look forward is difficult because we don't yet know what the loosening efforts will look like. In barbershops and hair salons that open in Georgia will barber, stylist and customer all be wearing masks? Even if they're just cloth masks I think the mitigation impact will be high. Georgia, South Carolina and Florida have the potential to show the way forward, for good or bad depending upon how they do it.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Percy, posted 04-27-2020 11:14 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 622 of 955 (875402)
04-25-2020 11:22 AM


An Abundance of Caution
I wasn't going to comment on Is the Virus on My Clothes? My Shoes? My Hair? My Newspaper? - The New York Times from the New York Times, but after a week they're still running it on the front page of the online edition, so I'll finally comment, initially just on this first section:
quote:

Should I change my clothes and shower when I come home from the grocery store?

For most of us who are practicing social distancing and making only occasional trips to the grocery store or pharmacy, experts agree that it’s not necessary to change clothes or take a shower when you return home. You should, however, always wash your hands. While it’s true that a sneeze or cough from an infected person can propel viral droplets and smaller particles through the air, most of them will drop to the ground.
Studies show that some small viral particles could float in the air for about half an hour, but they don’t swarm like gnats and are unlikely to collide with your clothes. A droplet that is small enough to float in air for a while also is unlikely to deposit on clothing because of aerodynamics, said Linsey Marr, an aerosol scientist at Virginia Tech. The droplets are small enough that they’ll move in the air around your body and clothing.
This is just so much nonsense. Yes, the larger exhalation particles will fall to the ground relatively quickly. Where this information goes wrong is to imply that the remaining exhalation particles aren't concerning, which couldn't be more wrong.
To explain let me pose a question whose answer feels counterintuitive to many people: Which has more total mass: all bacteria or all animals? If you guessed bacteria then you're right. And in the same way the amount of total mass in tiny particles that stay suspended in the air far exceeds that in the larger, but far, far fewer particles that drop to the floor.
The estimate that tiny particles remain suspended in the air for a half hour is also incorrect. Yes, there was a study that reached this conclusion, the above quote includes the link to it, and the comments section of the article has a response to precisely this issue, but it still makes the point that studies have found that the virus lingers in the air far longer, see, for example, How Long Does Coronavirus Live In The Air? Here's What We Know. | HuffPost Life:
quote:
The researchers found that airborne coronavirus particles stayed floating for up to three hours before falling and clinging to a new surface.
At their tiny size the air is more viscous than water, and the particles have such low density that they're buoyant. They are not going to sink to the floor. They will over time deposit on surfaces through the normal motion of the air created by people walking around and by any air driven by heating/cooling of the building or of the refrigerator displays or the equipment in the cooking areas.
Which brings us to the other error. The particles suspended in air will not magically move around your clothing through the power of aerodynamics as you walk around. The air is so thick and viscous for particles of this size they're almost like berries embedded in Jello. They are not going to exit the air that touches your clothing. They will remain in that air like berries stuck in Jello.
Also, unlike hard surfaces like shelves and food containers your clothing is permeable to the air. Air will pass through it and act like a filter. Air and particles will enter the outside of your clothing and many of the particles will become trapped in your clothing. Your clothing is a massive filter extracting tiny particles containing virus from the air.
If you still believe that tiny particles suspended in the air will somehow move away from your clothing, consider how often you've entered a smoke filled room and emerged without your clothing smelling of cigarette smoke. Evidently the smoke particles didn't magically through the mechanism of aerodynamics evade your clothing.
So that first section of the article is just so much bullshit. Here's the truth. If you enter a building like a grocery store where some people are not wearing masks then you must assume that the air is filled with coronavirus and that your clothes will be full of it. There have been no studies about the transmission of coronavirus from clothing, so out of an abundance of caution you must assume it is possible. What you do when you reach home will depend a great deal upon the configuration, but your clothes must be washed without coming in contact with anything but you, and you must shower without coming in contact with anything, but wash your hands first so that it's safe to touch things like doorknobs, shower curtains, light switches, faucets, etc.
I know this must sound outlandish and way overkill to people living in places that don't feel the threat yet, but I live in a county where the infection growth rate is on the high side. I think the local grocery stores are playing a significant role, because they don't require masks of their employees or customers, and more people are gathered there than anywhere else. If you're living in a region of the country not yet feeling much effect from the virus do not be fooled into complacency. It will get there. For virus there are no boundaries.
--Percy
PS: The plural of virus is viruses, but I've been using virus as it's own plural, like fish and deer, and I'm sticking with it. I seem to be alone in this.

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Phat, posted 04-25-2020 11:50 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 624 of 955 (875405)
04-25-2020 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by Phat
04-25-2020 11:50 AM


Re: An Abundance of Caution
Phat writes:
Suddenly the world is a hostile place and us humans must prepare ourselves for survival at the expense of enjoying a normal life.
How are you weighing the negative impact on "enjoying a normal life" against the possibility of death or permanent disability?
Facts must be the central focus of discussion. Focus on the facts, either the ones I've introduced or your own. Embrace them, discuss them, challenge them, but don't ignore them.
I concede the enormous ambiguity of the value of a human life. If it costs the US government $3 trillion to save 3 million lives, a million dollars per life, is that too much? How do we put a value on human life?
The answer is that you don't put a value on human life, but I can think of several different valid approaches.
One is that you work as hard as you can to reduce the risks as much as you can and save as many as you can. You tote up the costs later. This is pretty much the approach we're taking now, we're just hindered at doing it well by the imbecile in chief.
Another approach is the accountant method where you attempt to balance the cost in human life of the virus at a certain expense amount versus the cost in human life of a diminished economy at that expense amount. We want to find the amount to expend where if we spend more then we'll lose more to the negative economy than we'll save from the virus, while if we spend less then we'll lose more to the virus than we'll save from having a better economy.
But this approach introduces problems for those who want an answer that argues for opening up the economy sooner rather than later, because the costs in human life of a bad economy just aren't that great. If you want to prove that statement wrong then you might start with this Google search, but I don't think you'll get anywhere.
So that leaves arguing on the basis of quality of life and longevity, presumably both negatively impacted by a bad economy. This also seems a tough argument to make.
Amidst all this talk of safety, however...are you not inciting fear as a giant bogeyman in your own mind?
The coronavirus must be feared in the same way one would fear replacing a live light switch or sitting in a garaged running car or touching a hot stove and so forth. These are all legitimate fears, not irrational ones. There's nothing bogeyman-ish about any of them.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by Phat, posted 04-25-2020 11:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 628 of 955 (875491)
04-27-2020 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 625 by Big_Al35
04-25-2020 3:12 PM


Re: The Testing Issue
You don't know why we'd think you would post from a position of determined ignorance? Can I suggest you examine your 10-year posting history here?
You originally asked, "I would be interested to know how many people you personally know who have the virus Percy?" Now you're completely ignoring that you asked this question. To put a finer point on my answer, you apparently think a sample size of one observer of how many known infected people there are is somehow meaningful. This is not quite as ignorant as suggesting that the use of disinfectants and sterilizing light should be investigated, but it's not far off.
I gave you enough information to determine how many infected people I likely know, in a way strongly hinting to you that the issue needs to be examined statistically, not anecdotally. Hyroglyphx, another random person just like myself, apparently knows five people.
So go ahead, gaslight us just like Trump. Tell us it wasn't ignorance but sarcasm.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by Big_Al35, posted 04-25-2020 3:12 PM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 632 by Big_Al35, posted 04-28-2020 5:28 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 629 of 955 (875497)
04-27-2020 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by Percy
04-25-2020 8:07 AM


Re: The Latest Data
Here's today's death graph. Note the drop yesterday by a factor of two. Is this promising or just the kind of varying data one must expect from the real world?
The bar graph of number of new cases also has a drop, again tantalizing, but not enough data to draw any conclusions:
Georgia is the state getting the most national attention about its plans for gradually loosening and reopening, so here's a table of the number of coronavirus deaths in George for the past week:
DateNumber Deaths
April 20775
April 21818
April 22846
April 23872
April 24899
April 25907
April 26916
Deaths are still rising but Georgia is loosening. Okay, we'll watch with great interest.
It's important to mention that a great deal of the public discussion about reopening has been very responsible. In contrast Georgia has included businesses like hair/nail salons and tattoo parlors among those that can reopen. These are both non-essential and very dangerous because of the risks of close contact they introduce.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Percy, posted 04-25-2020 8:07 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by Tangle, posted 04-27-2020 11:54 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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 Message 646 by Percy, posted 04-29-2020 12:03 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 646 of 955 (875578)
04-29-2020 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by Percy
04-27-2020 11:14 AM


Re: The Latest Data
Here's today's graph of deaths per day from The Washington Post Coronavirus Page. Someone noted that there is a weekend effect, and this shows up in both the graphs I've been showing recently, more so in the other graph than this one:
Here's the bar graph of new cases from ArcGIS Dashboards Classic as of yesterday:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Percy, posted 04-27-2020 11:14 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2020 10:52 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 654 by Percy, posted 04-30-2020 12:17 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 649 of 955 (875581)
04-29-2020 12:56 PM


Do As I Say, Not As I Do
https://www.cnbc.com/...-tours-mayo-clinic-without-mask.html, reports CNBC and other news outlets. The VP's excuse was that the mask is for preventing the infection of others and that he is tested for CV daily. The imbecility of this comment is obvious, but I'll explain anyway.
First, there's always the possibility of the presence of CV, making Pence one of the "others" who could become infected.
Second, daily testing only means that Pence would know relatively quickly if he became infected at the Mayo clinic. This would put everyone in the White House into quarantine, since he would already have been contagious before detection. And since there could be no certainty that the Mayo clinic is where he contracted the virus, those who were in his presence there would also need to be quarantined.
Good show, Mr. Pence.
In other news, https://www.cnbc.com/...despite-shortages-across-states.html. This piece of fiction had already been shot down earlier in the day: https://www.cnbc.com/...rth-us-can-test-5-million-a-day.html.
The news media has still not figured out how to report Trump's lies and antics. They should report anything he says that is true or useful and just ignore the rest. We don't need headlines like "Trump says we'll soon be doing 5 millions per day." The news media should just ignore that stuff.
A neighbor who's a nurse just began quarantine today after being exposed to an infected coworker (i.e., another nurse).
My retired doctor friend is doing testing a few towns over today, and we'll be playing tennis later. Generally he tests in assisted living facilities and group homes, and the rate of positive tests at such places is usually above half, so he's exposed all the time, but only while wearing a full PPE getup that includes scrubs, booties, head covering, N95 mask and a face shield. Plus he knows how to take it all off safely. Just the same, we won't get any closer than 15 or 20 feet of each other.
My wife's boss's boss's mother died of CV today.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by dwise1, posted 04-29-2020 4:34 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 654 of 955 (875610)
04-30-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by Percy
04-29-2020 12:03 PM


Re: The Latest Data
Here's today's graph of deaths per day from The Washington Post Coronavirus Page, 60,765 so far:
Here's the bar graph of new cases from ArcGIS Dashboards Classic as of yesterday. If they included a moving average it does feel like you'd start to see a decline. If the decline is real then in a week it should average somewhere around 24,000 new cases per day, but the gradual loosening of sheltering in place and social distancing guidelines should also have begun to have an effect by then:
As I warned people over a month ago, the six foot distancing guideline is nonsense. One of the reasons I cited was tiny aerosol-sized droplets. This came from simple reasoning that goes like this. Sheer randomness guarantees that our exhalations will include a range of droplet sizes, from actual spitballs to microscopic aerosol size. Large droplets will sink to the floor (and get all over your shoes), but the smaller the droplet the longer it will stay suspended in the air, and the tiniest droplets will stay suspended forever until they come in contact with something.
While studies have not yet confirmed the lifetimes of virus in tiny droplets (which of course is not something one can determine from simple logical reasoning), it *is* finally becoming apparent that aerosol size droplets require study and could possibly be a significant factor. See Spain, France, Greece: Coronavirus World News Live Updates - The New York Times for one. There was another more detailed article I read yesterday in the Post that cited studies: Studies leave question of ‘airborne’ coronavirus transmission unanswered.
Don't gamble that studies will reveal aerosol sized droplets are not a factor in the contagion. Maybe they're a factor, maybe not, we don't yet know. Don't take any chances until we know for sure. There's no safe social distance in air that other people have breathed within the past few hours. In such circumstances you should always wear a mask. The great outdoors is probably pretty safe as long as you're not close to other people.
Two high school girls were already playing on one of two courts when we arrived yesterday, so we walked onto the empty court and the girls asked us to go to a different court further away. We said we liked that court because it was close to the woods and more sheltered from the wind (God was it windy yesterday). The girls left and went to the other set of courts. Evidently they felt that 20 feet, probably the closest any of us would ever come to them, wasn't enough.
But two of the guys I played doubles with yesterday are legacy players (meaning formerly top notch but older now, in their 70's), and they were paying no attention to social distancing on the court. When we finished they walked up to the net and stood side-by-side as if we were going to shake hands or something. I think this is one of the dangers for the older community, that their thinking and habits are less adaptable.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Add link to Times article.
Edited by Percy, : Add link to Post article about airborne transmission.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Percy, posted 04-29-2020 12:03 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 660 by Percy, posted 05-02-2020 8:42 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 658 of 955 (875666)
05-02-2020 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by NosyNed
05-02-2020 9:40 AM


Re: "Low"?
NosyNed writes:
If it is 0.5 and the seasonal flu is 0.1 of infected patients then it is still terrible.
If flu really* is over 60,000 deaths in the USA then the above death rate suggests 300,000 deaths.
300,000 deaths from the coronavirus is arrived at by (.05/.01)*60,000, but there's another way of calculating potential deaths that might yield a more accurate number. The penetration rate for a virus this contagious is 60-70% when there is no vaccine or mitigation methods. Using the more conservative figure of 60% says that the coronavirus could potentially infect 195 million, and a mortality rate of .5% would yield 975,000 deaths.
But with aggressive mitigation techniques (but still no vaccine) the penetration rate might be significantly lessened, but it would have to decrease to around 20% in order for a .5% mortality rate to yield around 300,000 deaths. It doesn't feel like a 20% penetration rate is achievable, especially not with all the pressure to loosen things up. Many states are loosening things up right now, even though the figures say things are at best staying about the same. I'm going to post the latest graphs again my next post, and they'll make clear that things are not improving.
You can review infections and deaths state by state on the Washington Post's page, but that's a bit time consuming and I don't do it very often.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by NosyNed, posted 05-02-2020 9:40 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by NosyNed, posted 05-02-2020 8:33 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 660 of 955 (875668)
05-02-2020 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by Percy
04-30-2020 12:17 PM


Re: The Latest Data
Here's today's graph of deaths per day from The Washington Post Coronavirus Page, 65,837 so far:
Here's the bar graph of new cases from ArcGIS Dashboards Classic as of yesterday:
These graphs show that we are not yet winning the battle against coronavirus.
In some locally good news, when I did the weekly grocery shopping yesterday around 80-90% of the employees were wearing masks, and around 90% of customers. This is way up from last week. I'm estimating, of course, those are just my observational impressions, but they are definitely ballpark.
--Ted

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Percy, posted 04-30-2020 12:17 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 669 by Percy, posted 05-04-2020 8:55 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 661 of 955 (875669)
05-02-2020 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 632 by Big_Al35
04-28-2020 5:28 AM


Re: The Testing Issue
Big_Al35 writes:
Why prejudge the intention of the question in this way and bite my head off like that.
Prejudging? Again, you've been here for a decade. We know exactly who you are. You must have mistaken us for people with amnesia.
Statistically the problem with the survey you're not actually doing is that your sample isn't random. And intellectually your survey is stupid (that's the technical term) because you're trying to cast doubt upon something that has already been unequivocally established nine ways from Sunday.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 632 by Big_Al35, posted 04-28-2020 5:28 AM Big_Al35 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 681 by Big_Al35, posted 05-07-2020 11:46 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 662 of 955 (875670)
05-02-2020 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 659 by NosyNed
05-02-2020 8:33 PM


Re: Statistics
NosyNed writes:
I've been using this site:
COVID Live - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Ooh, beautiful, I love it. Thank you!
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by NosyNed, posted 05-02-2020 8:33 PM NosyNed has not replied

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 Message 663 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-02-2020 10:13 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 667 of 955 (875724)
05-04-2020 8:07 AM


A Lie: Trump Administration Claims About China Lab
Last week during Q&A the president claimed to have a great deal of evidence that the coronavirus came from a Wuhan lab. When asked for the evidence Trump said he couldn't reveal it. Yesterday on ABC's This Week Mike Pompeo said essentially the same thing.
It is, of course, a lie. I have no evidence that it is a lie, but this is the Trump administration, so naturally it is a lie. It's just another in an unending stream of compelling claims that the Trump Administration makes at least several times a week to dominate the news cycle and sometimes also to exert political pressure. If it gains traction in the news media they'll keep pushing it, despite the untruth, and if it doesn't then it will evaporate just like so many other claims, such as their determination a month ago to refer to it as the China virus.
I do not understand why the news media continues to exert so much effort covering the Trump administration's veils of fiction and lies. it is sufficient to say, "Trump took questions from the media today, nothing worth mentioning emerged, and in fact some of what he said was dangerously untrue, so we'll just move on to the next news item. For those interested Trump's comments can be found in full at our website."
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 668 by PaulK, posted 05-04-2020 8:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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