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Author Topic:   Morality without God is impossible
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 652
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 301 of 306 (874997)
04-12-2020 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by GDR
04-12-2020 11:03 AM


There is no "universal morality that flows from God". In fact, the painstaking process of humanity figuring out what is moral and what is not (remember, not long ago almost everyone - including Bary Obama! - thought that marriage between two people of the same sex was immoral) has been only made more difficult by that human invention called religion.

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 Message 300 by GDR, posted 04-12-2020 11:03 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by GDR, posted 04-12-2020 7:15 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 04-13-2020 5:43 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 302 of 306 (875000)
04-12-2020 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Sarah Bellum
04-12-2020 5:48 PM


I've gone around that with Tangle so if you like you can read what I have posted there.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 303 of 306 (875022)
04-13-2020 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Sarah Bellum
04-12-2020 5:48 PM


...

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-12-2020 5:48 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 304 of 306 (875539)
04-28-2020 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Dogmafood
04-03-2020 7:07 AM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Dogmafood writes:

The best I can say is that you don't reverse 3 billion yrs of evolution just because you evolved an intellect. Our intelligence is a progression of that evolution and no matter what your stated basis for evaluating good and bad is it is still trying to push the same buttons that it always has.

This shows you still don't understand Maslow's pyramid.

I'm not attempting to say that intellect reverses any evolution.
But it does build on top of it.

Humans definitely do have that 3 billion years of evolution still inside them. That's the base of the pyramid - instinctual needs. Like food, water and shelter.
But... if we meet those needs, then our intellect is free to focus on other things.

If we meet enough/most/all instinctual needs (the top of Maslow's pyramid) then our intellect is extremely free from those 3 billion years of evolutionary drives - because those drives are already met!
All that's left is our intellect - and we are free to focus on what we want - different for everyone. And are no longer held back by being focused on instinctual needs.

What is the 3 billion years of evolution "button" that makes people choose to play darts? Or any other form of entertainment?
There is none.
These choices are freely made, intellectually, without regard to drives such as procreation or survival.
Because, if one is choosing to play darts, their "3 billion year old buttons" driving them to procreate and/or survive... are already pressed and already met!
No one chooses to play darts while running for their life from a mad gunman.
But, if you're safe, and out with pals, and there's no pressing need to have a baby... then you can freely choose to play darts or baseball or video games or collect stamps or any other form of entertainment.

Such choices are choices made (or, at least, "can be made") without regard to procreation and/or survival.
Not because procreation and survival are "reversed." But simply because those needs have already been met (Maslow's pyramid.)

Again, what is it about being able to reason that would fundamentally change that 3 billion yr trend?

3 billion years ago, reason did not exist on this planet.
An ant cannot choose a form of "entertainment" regardless of how well their needs for procreation/survival are met. Their pyramid simply does not go up that high.
Reason does not exist for an ant, and didn't exist for us (or any other living thing on earth) 3 billion years ago.

But now, reason exists for us.
Now, our pyramid does go that high.
Now, once our instinctual needs/drives are met - we are free to focus on wants/desires/choices/decisions that are based on reason/intellect and not based on instinctual needs/drives/buttons like procreation or survival.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 305 of 306 (875688)
05-03-2020 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Stile
04-28-2020 8:39 AM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Stile: All that's left is our intellect - and we are free to focus on what we want - different for everyone.
Serpant: Hey buddy. humans are all that there is. You will be as gods. Don't listen to myths.

Stile: Errr.thanks for the advice, but why am I talking to a snake? Sounds like I'm delusional!
Snake: Of course you are. Evidence always shows us the way. We are all unique and different and we all have a right to exist. Its how I convinced the Big Guy to even let me hang out here.

Stile: Nice try, Phat. What is the point of your analogy though?

Humor.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Stile, posted 04-28-2020 8:39 AM Stile has responded

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 306 of 306 (875704)
05-03-2020 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Phat
05-03-2020 12:01 PM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Phat writes:

Stile: All that's left is our intellect - and we are free to focus on what we want - different for everyone.
Serpant: Hey buddy. humans are all that there is. You will be as gods. Don't listen to myths.

Some use their intellect for evil and confusion.
Others for good and honesty.

Which do you choose?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 05-03-2020 12:01 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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