Summations Only

Wow, Marc, you've outdone yourself. I'm not going to waste time on most of the nonsense and paranoia, just touch on the few least irrational points. Given that over 80,000 have already died in a few short months, that the pandemic will likely continue at least another year, that unemployment is rising toward 20%, and that the deficit will likely exceed $4 trillion this year, in what way is the pandemic blown out of proportion? Public health is a private sector responsibility now? Deciding to close down the task force in the morning and then deciding to keep it open later in the day is a reversal. What's manufactured is Trump's complaint that Democrats reversed course concerning whether the Trump administration acted early enough. I think this is true for you, but what you need is information you accept because of the evidence behind it.--Percy

Trump has declared that Americans should be warriors willing to risk death to return to work without the testing and contact tracing that would greatly increase their safety while insisting upon intensive testing and contact tracing for himself and the people in his administration. Apparently it's essential for his workplace but not for anyone else's.Here's a Post editorial that makes the point better than me: Trump’s latest effort to gaslight America is falling apart--Percy

"Where's my Roy Cohn?" Trump frequently lamented. Well, now he's got him, in spirit if not in the flesh.The avuncular William Barr is amiable and grandfatherly on the outside, but on the inside he's Roy Cohn to the core. He's got the president's back like no other Attorney General before, going out of his way to destroy the independence of independent counsel Robert Mueller by mischaracterizing his report's content and conclusions and interfering with his investigations and convictions to protect the president's friends. He has tasked U.S. Attorney John Durham to begin a non-independent investigation of the origins of the Russia investigation by the Obama administration. All this is glaringly political.The other day Barr was asked how history would remember the Bill Barr Department of Justice, and Barr replied that history is written by the winners, being both cynical and out of context at the same time. The quote is about wars, not election outcomes in democratic nations. Republicans and Democrats will continue to win and lose elections, and it will have no impact on the perspectives developed by future historians. Grant won the presidency, Tammany Hall won many elections, but history had no problem looking back and seeing their corruption. It will be the same for Barr. He will go down in history as the most corrupt Attorney General in US history, and of course his boss as the most corrupt president. Whoever comes in second, it won't even be close.Republicans from this period won't fare much better. Giving the cold shoulder to Republican principles under Trump reveals them as seekers of power, not principle. The cherished Republican principles are now exposed as disposable, a mere means to power. Trump provided an easier way, so they threw the principles aside.--Percy

You are living in your own dreamworld. I think you still lack a way to reliably identify what is actually true about the real world. These are bald assertions unsupported by any evidence. You're blindly following Trump's lead in setting the stage for denying the virus is causing many deaths in order to justify reopening the economy not because deaths are overstated but because he believes that provides the best path to reelection.You don't really seem to care about people taking ill and dying, only about making up a set of "facts" that leads to Trump's reelection. Why are you wallowing in error like this? Public health is a public responsibility. It's in the name. You're straw manning now. No one said the entire course was reversed. It was only said that Trump reversed course on keeping the task force open. When the day started the task force was open. Later that morning Trump said he was shutting it down, a move that surprised no one since after his string of blunders it was broadly apparent that it no longer served his political ends. Late in the afternoon the political fallout of dismissing a pandemic task force while the pandemic still raged became apparent, so he reversed course and said he wasn't closing it down.But this was just one example of Trump's schizophrenic approach to governing. Sometimes he acts on what was last said to him, other times he acts on impulse, other times out of anger. It's "China's doing a great job" one day and "China's responsible for the pandemic" the next. It's "we have to shelter in place" in the morning and "Free Michigan" in the afternoon. This contradictory ping-ponging between positions stems from the lack of any centralizing plan or philosophy. The "plan" is whatever Trump feels is politically expedient at the time. It works very well for him politically, but for the country not so well. Mainstream news anchors haven't changed. What's changed is the growth of a right-wing echo chamber that denies facts. As I've posted to many people many times, I'm not going to watch a video without a strong reason. Video's are an extremely slow way to communicate information unless they're very visual. I can read far faster than a video, so please summarize the information from the video you think important and provide the video as a reference, just as the Forum Guidelines say you're supposed to do. If it's just a short segment of video then you could preposition it at the right place. From the Forum Guidelines:

5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

You're proposing the destruction of an independent news media where truth is whatever the controlling party says it is. Your proposal will be agreeable to you only for as long as the party you prefer is in control, then you'll start blaming your News Task Force for fake news. This is just a bare link. See the aforementioned Forum Guidelines. RedState is a conservative political blog, not a news outlet. Bring any accurate information it provides into this thread and provide the link as a reference.--Percy

Trump publicly criticized Dr. Anthony Fauci's testimony during a Senate hearing. Trump said he was surprised that Dr. Fauci testified that reopening schools and businesses prematurely would lead to unnecessary suffering and death.Dr. Fauci also said that the number of deaths is being undercounted.Trump deemed Fauci's comments unacceptable, which means Trump sees them as hindering his political goals. For Trump science, and the country, must be sacrificed in the service of his reelection efforts.Source (among many, it's all over today's news): Trump's rebuke of Fauci encapsulates rejection of science in virus fight | CNN Politics--Percy

I know you said "flawed" and not "corrupt," but still, commenting "you are correct" to a paragraph that begins "A lot of corruption is involved in death counts" might lend the impression that you agree there's corruption. In Marc's world a corrupt medical establishment is working to make the pandemic seem far worse than it actually is in order to hurt Trump's reelection chances. Trump has already begun laying the groundwork for this argument.--Percy

Opinion | America’s True Covid Toll Already Exceeds 100,000 - The New York Times is a New York Times opinion piece that explains how the current 83,000 dead is an undercount. Its count derives from comparisons with deaths over the same period in prior years, i.e., excess deaths. The data and results are preliminary.--Percy

Anyone know what's Obama's terrible crimes were? Trump evidently doesn't. Watch him attempt to answer: Got that? The crimes were terrible and everyone knows what they were, but Trump was obviously floundering for an answer. Judging from the tweet, Trump is accusing Obama of "targeting incoming officials" and "sabotaging the new administration." Anyone want to guess what Trump will eventually accuse Obama of doing that are actually crimes?Is the Trump pattern of accuse and complain without evidence obvious to everyone?--Percy

President Trump yesterday promised hundreds of millions of doses of coronavirus vaccines by January (Scientists say Trump’s timeline on wide vaccine availability is unrealistic). Americans should view this announcement askance. Trump is promoting a false narrative where the cure is right around the corner, shortly after the election. As November approaches Trump will be telling his rallies that the vaccine is almost ready and that it was the efforts of his administration making this possible. Meanwhile scientists will be cautioning that a vaccine is still many months in the future. Trump is saying what he is saying not because it has any factual basis but because he needs to convince voters that everything's fine and he's handled things well.Developing a vaccine from scratch in 12-18 months is sort of like baking a cake in five minutes, and the coronavirus is tricky vaccine-wise. Americans would do best to listen to the experts and keep their expectations reasonable. We are trying to fast track vaccine development and manufacture by building manufacturing lines for promising strains before development and testing is complete. Manufacturing lines for strains that don't pan out will be discarded at the expense of the federal government. It is not impossible that we could have a vaccine in full production by January, but it is not very likely.Our best hope is for a suite of treatments that dramatically reduce the death and disability rate. If the virus becomes treatable then we can fully reopen the country without a vaccine.In related news, it has been requested that the drug Trump promoted, hydroxychloroquine, be removed from the FDA's list of drugs approved for emergency use because it is causing so many deaths. "What the hell do you have to lose?" Trump asked at a coronavirus press briefing, and the answer is, "Your life."This shouldn't have to be said, and sorry to shout, but DO NOT LISTEN TO TRUMP ABOUT ANYTHING TECHNICAL, ESPECIALLY MEDICAL. He will say whatever he thinks will dominate the next 24-hour news cycle or help him get elected without regard to truth or accuracy (see President Trump made 18,000 false or misleading claims in 1,170 days). Trump is the proverbial snake oil salesman extraordinaire.--Percy

I actually believe this is part of Trump's brilliance, that he knows he can convince sufficient numbers of people of anything. His inauguration crowd is just the first of many examples. Most rational people would think that almost no one would be convinced that Trump's inauguration crowd was the biggest in history, but they would be wrong. Probably around 44% of the country believe it. Check out This is what Trump voters said when asked to compare his inauguration crowd with Obama’s, an article from 2017. Even when confronted with stark photographic evidence right before their eyes at the very moment the question was asked, most Trump voters identified the photo with fewer people as having more.I think Trump will be able to easily convince many that the mortality rate is overstated, that the virus is far less serious than the Democrats claim, and that the Democrats are trying to overstate the mortality rate for political reasons to win an election. If there are 100,000 deaths by the election (I'm choosing a round number for convenience, not making a projection), then if each dead person was known to a hundred people that would be 10 million people who know someone who died from the coronavirus, and 320 million who know no one who died. Most Trump voters, especially since they're concentrated in less population dense regions, will know no one who died. They'll be easily convinced that all the fuss was over nothing.Now look at the number of cases. Let's say there are 2 million infection cases by the election (again, choosing a round number for convenience). If each infected person was known to a hundred people then that would be 200 million who knew someone infected. The odds of knowing an infected person are in the neighborhood of 60%, less in less population dense regions. Most Trump voters will know zero or one infected person. They'll again be easily convinced that all the fuss was over nothing.And some people are arguing that they're right. Even if we completely open and the virus kills a million people, that's only .3% of the country. Most people would still not know a single person who died, and the economy could begin recovering. These people somehow find a way to balance an equation between money and death.--PercyPS: I know I wasn't being properly statistical when producing those numbers, but I think ballpark figures are sufficient to make the point.

What would be the criteria? If it's your preferred approach of making stuff up then you're quite right, I wouldn't fare well. People who have the facts stick with the facts. People who don't make up accusations. Of course. How and how fast? You're making things up again. I'm sure everyone with a sense of humanity wants the country reopened as safely and as quickly as possible. You're making things up again.Look at how Trump is yanking you around. When he closed the country, which was the right thing to do even though belated, you thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and claimed it demonstrated how much Trump cared about people. Now two months later where nothing has changed regarding testing, contact tracing or vaccines Trump wants to reopen the country, and you think this, too, is the greatest thing since sliced bread. How is the danger of again releasing the pandemic any less now than in March? What is changing your mind besides that it's Trump's latest whim?You need to find a consistent perspective. If it's safe to open the country now, then since nothing has changed since March it was safe to keep the country open back then. But if it was truly too dangerous to keep the country open in March, then it is still too dangerous to reopen it now. You need to pick a consistent point of view.There is one thing that has changed since March: people are wearing masks now. Is this sufficient to keep the virus sufficiently at bay? There's no way to be certain. That's why, now that we've flattened the curve with the shutdown, that it is possible to cautiously and slowly reopen the country. While that happens those adversely affected need assistance from the government, if not the recent House bill then something like it. It's not possible to follow this chain of aspersion and illogic except for the last bit, which should make you happy since you believe the House bill will eventually push people toward Trump. Are you forgetting the House bill you seem so dead set against?The solution we should all be seeking is one of balance where people aren't forced back to work in an unsafe environment out of economic necessity. Again, we must seek balance between safety and economics. You seems ignorant of a great deal, and you're making things up again. Public health is not an invention of modern Democrats. Public health goes way back. See, for example, the Public Health Act of 1848. How could you not know that public health has been around for a long time? Are you just saying whatever is expedient that pops into your head? That really makes sense to even you?You are terribly confused. When you mentioned Muir I said, "Only if you describe what you're talking about can it be discussed," and you said, "I'm talking about what your link referenced, Trump's decision to delay the winding down of the Corona Virus Task Force, based on input from his credentialed advisors." I never mentioned Muir, and my links don't mention Muir. Here they are again. If you'd care to try commenting intelligently about this Trump same-day 180 then please go ahead, but try to keep straight that it has nothing to do with Muir's report which I never saw. As I've told you many times, I don't watch TV news:

• Trump Says Task Force Will Wind Down - The New York Times
• Coronavirus: Trump says task force will continue indefinitely

No one thinks Michigan is an example of Trump ping-ponging and course reversals. Trump is as inconstant as the moon. What he says and does is driven by his desire to dominate the news cycle and to benefit himself personally, not by what is best for the country You accused modern news anchors of lying: "But prominent news anchors lying is a pretty new thing." I was responding to that claim when I said they haven't changed. News anchors weren't liars then or now. What's changed is the growth of a right wing echo chamber that denies facts. That's exactly what you didn't do, provide any information summary. Or do you think this is an information summary:

quote:

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But prominent news anchors lying is a pretty new thing. And I'm not the only one who thinks it's a SERIOUS problem.

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Aw, that's cute.Look, Marc, get a clue. We don't do debate by link here. Make your point using the information from your video link, then provide the link as a reference. I'm not going to watch your video unless you give me some information from it that I think I need to see for myself.There should never be a time when the only way people can figure out what your argument is is to visit a link or watch a video. Use your words. Your own words. Going with false accusations again, I see. The link I cited calls it an opinion piece. I myself called it an opinion piece. I said the data it cited were preliminary. You'd be better served finding facts supporting your position instead of repeatedly making unfounded personal attacks. If you check the Forum Guidelines it says nothing about the length of the link, nor is there any hotness criteria. Again, bring the information into the thread and make your argument. Links are for reference, not for you to hand out reading and viewing assignments. Good luck with that, and it's still politicizing news coverage. An independent press is a cornerstone of liberty.--Percy

I never said anything like that, but now that you bring it up why don't we compare the number of Pulitzers each has won.And I didn't "believe" a NYT opinion piece. I cited Opinion | America’s True Covid Toll Already Exceeds 100,000 - The New York Times because it mentioned the preliminary results of a study to obtain more accurate mortality figures. Are you arguing against trying to prevent any deaths, or only coronavirus deaths. Without prophylactic measures, including the closing of some businesses, the health care system will be overwhelmed resulting in both coronavirus deaths and collateral deaths due to unavailability of sufficient health care resources. Deaths would exceed at least a couple million. If by recover you mean not die then 99% is probably pretty close to the mark. But not everyone who survives fully recovers. Some suffer permanent disability such as damaged lungs or kidneys, or a lost limb. The plan was for closing things down (two weeks would not have been long enough) while we ramped up a federally organized and coordinated testing and contact tracing effort. We did close things down, but the federal government abandoned the states and left them to create 50 separate testing and contact tracing efforts. For this reason, as we open things up we're just as vulnerable as we were back in March. Mitigating factors are the degree to which people continue wearing masks, and rising temperatures since "Each additional 1.8-degree temperature increase above that level was associated with an additional 3.1 percent reduction in the virus’s reproduction number..." (Summer weather could help fight coronavirus spread but won’t halt the pandemic. The pandemic as we're experiencing it here in the United States is primarily the fault of a single person who has coopted the Republican Party, turned its congressmen into lackeys, is damaging and corrupting our Democratic institutions, and is destroying respect for the U.S. throughout the world.I'm curious about one thing. Why do you use the TDR acronym for Trump derangement syndrome - Wikipedia?--Percy

That reminder is just a sideways way of making a false assertion. No one blames the virus on Trump. It would make as much sense to blame the Chinese.Trump is responsible for the ongoing bungling of the viral threat. He is not actually competent to manage anything, only of avoiding responsibility, deflecting blame and turning the full bully pulpit on anyone insufficiently fawning.--Percy

This would be incorrect. Those pandemics were all caused by flu viruses that have obvious symptoms. The novel coronavirus is not a flu virus. The symptoms are different and can be absent. Cloth masks? No, there's no evidence of adverse health effects using cloth masks. N95 respirator masks shouldn't be worn by people with health issues, but otherwise they're fine, with only possible minor effects after wearing for a long time. But how many people are wearing N95 masks? They're still not available at the retail level, though Defense Procurement Act administrator Peter Navarro was on the Sunday morning programs today touting the Trump administration's great success with PPE. You're just reconfirming what people had already concluded, that you don't understand how dangerous this virus is and how important it is to wear a mask, for your own safety and that of all the people around you, including those you know and love. This reflects no comprehension of public health. Stopping a pandemic requires greatly reduced social interaction as well as protecting people from each other's exhalations and other sources of viral exposure. The individual right to freedom stops at society's greater right to be free from threat. This has long been recognized. Public health departments have been ordering quarantines for a long, long time, well over a century. Your information is incorrect. Hospital charges to Medicare for a coronavirus stay can vary widely depending upon length of stay and services provided. A 20% surcharge was passed by Congress and signed by Trump because of the extra costs of dealing with the extreme contagiousness of the virus, such as the constant sanitizing, the complete change of PPE required when moving from a coronavirus area to a non-coronavirus area, and so forth. So you're saying that had Trump not been distracted by the impeachment that he would have begun addressing the pandemic back in January when he should have? How many times did Trump tweet in January? He sent 125 tweets on January 22 alone.Congratulations on making it through another post without saying anything true or correct.--PercyEdited by Percy, : Typo.

For Trump supporters everything is a conspiracy theory. There's the Deep State conspiracy, the Fake News conspiracy, the Russia Hoax conspiracy, the Ukrainian conspiracy, the impeachment conspiracy, the Michael Flynn conspiracy, the Roger Stone conspiracy, the Obamagate conspiracy, and now, if you can believe it, the coronavirus conspiracy.According to Eric Trump, the coronavirus is a Democratic hoax.As the election season heats up we can expect to see an unending stream of conspiracy theory accusations, not because there's any truth to them, but because Donald Trump thinks in terms of conspiracy theories. Look at all the conspiracy theories he's floated over the years. Obama was not an natural born American but was born in Kenya. Climate change is a conspiracy theory. The Obama administration conspired to wiretap the phones at Trump tower. The Democrats conspired to have millions of illegal immigrants vote for Clinton in order to deny Trump a popular vote victory. The death toll in Puerto Rico due to Hurricane Maria was faked. Windmills cause cancer. The Ukraine has Hillary Clinton's missing emails. It never ends.Unfortunately, what also never ends is the gullibility of Trump supporters. It seems their appetite for baseless conspiracy theories never ends, and their desire for fact-based information never begins.--Percy