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Author | Topic: When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Which is greater? The Temple or the One Whom dwells in the Temple? The Deities Son is greater than the landowner's sons or their business partners.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stop your silly tap dancing and try to address the topic. There really isnt much to expect. Billy Graham once put it this way:
Billy Graham writes: The Bible warns us against making precise predictions about the exact time of Jesus’ returnbut His return is certain, and we may well be living in the last days before He comes again. The Bible says, The night is nearly over; the day is almost here (Romans 13:12). Shortly before returning to Heaven Jesus told His disciples that someday He would come back to establish His Kingdom. But before that could take place, He said, certain things would have to happenand we see many of these today. For example, He said that before His return the Gospel must be preached throughout the world (see Mark 13:10). Never before has this been possiblebut now it is, through radio and the Internet and other modern means of communication. You also have placed your finger on another sign Jesus gave: Satan’s final attempt to halt God’s work through a massive onslaught of evil. Our world is no stranger to evil; Satan has always been working to stop God’s plans. But God’s enemies now have access to modern weapons of mass destruction, and no one can predict what the outcome will be. Jesus said, You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Nation will rise against nation (Matthew 24:6-7). The real question, however, is this: Are you ready for Christ’s return? You can be, by turning to Him and putting your faith and trust in Him. Don’t take His warnings lightly, but commit your life without delay to Jesus Christ. Now...you will laugh at the dogmatic imagery of the Bronze Age mythos, attempting to frame the argument in the way that your Socratic Masters taught you to do (which prevented you from ever accepting the easy answer that Billy Graham gives) but all you end up concluding is that we are responsible. You will shoot down any apologetic argument for the end of the world and say instead that the world won't end based on apologetic fantasies.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Topic Phat. When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know? No man knows the day or the hour, but we can know that there will come an end to either humans or the planet at some future point in time. The Jesus in the book and the jar from Deep South Texas don't seem to see eye to eye.
Matthew 16:13-20 New King James Version (NKJV) writes: Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? 14 So they said, Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. 15 He said to them, But who do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Poetic License from Phat.jar confesses being a member of an established club. jar says he believes in the Nicene Creed. jar understands the Bible as a product of man. Thus such an exchange could hypothetically happen, perhaps in a dream or a prayer. 13 When Jesus came into the region of Mission, Texas, He asked His disciples, saying, Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?
And why do you challenge Billy Graham's explanation? It works for me. I don't simply throw the Manger Baby out with the Holy bathwater! 14 So they said, Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. The apologists make up all sorts of stories and use the book to their own marketing agendas. 15 He said to them, But who do you say that I am? 16 jar answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God according to the Nicene Creed. Shucks, I always tell people to throw away the image of you that the apologists market. I just try and help others every day and in every way that I can. After all, I and I alone am responsible for taking up LaCrosse or listening to tales told on the back of a medicine wagon. I'm trying to get Phat to think about his responsibilities rather than his fantasies. " 17 Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, jar of Texas, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.jar stared down at his shoes and looked puzzled. "Was I mistaken to throw you away?" Jesus answered, "No. You are doing what I commanded people to do. Phat prefers fantasy over reality, but you all forget that I am more than a character in a book. I can change reality any time I choose, according to what my Father tells me." Edited by Phat, : No reason given.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: You claim to be a believer. What does the Holy Spirit tell you? Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times"? Sidenote: jar has heard this question many times before. He likely will ask how anyone could possibly hear from the Holy Spirit and how would they know? In essence, he frames the issue the way that he believes...that he believes but has no way of knowing. So my question is this: Do you teach that "believers" will never actually know God or feel His presence until; after they die? If then??? It sounds more like a doubter to me. Add by Edit: That's why you think that all apologists make stuff up, isn't it? You simply can't wrap your mind around the idea that God is living in Spirit among us, can you? It surely must be a carny sales pitch, huh I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity. The curent global news is more confusing than ancient scripture. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes:
I googled a random apologetics page to start my reply. Look, I agree with you and the Bible that many so-called Christians sell religion. I also know that much of it is purposefully fake. One of the signs of the Last Dayus according to many apologists is the rise of a global world religion. It will offend as few as possible and will include every faith and eveery belief. It will be sold as a consensus geared towards global peace and tranquility. The apologists say that it is fake. Jesus is the only way to know God. His exclusivity is an offense to some and a welcoming embrace to others. In the future, people such as you will either take a leap and embrace Jesus (without evidence that you may be embracing a bad burrito) or you will actively oppose and persecute the zealous ones who are convinced that we are in the culminating times that demand human cooperation and consensus. If you do trust Jesus, you will have handed your brain to Him, and He will gladly give it back to you. If you oppose the Christians, you will think you are doing whats right, as Saul did before conversion. Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times"? But lets examine my random source, in order to get this conversation going, shall we? 6 Signs Of The Last Days Of course one could argue that this is simply the interpretation of scripture by a group of apologists, all of whom are the sons of PT Barnum according to jar. But let me ask you this: What is the evidence that we have passed our window of opportunity to mitigate the major effects of global warming? In what way could this lead to wars? What evide3nce do you have that humans will suddenly cooperate and love each other?The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
What does the Holy Spirit tell you?jar writes: Funny how you say "some" Holy Spirit. You claim to be a Creedal Cradle Christian. As I browsed our archives, I found the following exchange with member Faith: Message 624 and I note that the Wikipedia article covers a lot of ground relating to the thought processes of early Christianity.
And the answer is still valid; "How can I tell if some voice is from some Holy Spirit?"jar writes: You limit yourself to objective evidence and yet claim that you are a believer in an established "club" of modern Christianity. I have discussed a globalist humanist one world religion before and you brought up the Episcopalian National Cathedral.
and yet the fact is that no one has ever provided any way to determine if they are hearing from some "Holy Spirit"! jar writes: The reality is that God is alive through Jesus Christ and that the very concept of reality itself was created by Him and through Him.
I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.I try to teach that behavior is more productive than belief and that behavior can be tested and verified while belief cannot. Well, I support this to a degree. But you must accept that some beliefs cannot be tested nor verified. You claim that the so-called apologists are all fake, fantasy-based hucksters with a profit-driven (as opposed to prophet driven) agenda.
jar writes: There you go back to evidence again. Perhaps you are right and essentially win the argument that behavior can be tested. Perhaps you think that your church club is progressive and an improvement over the racist, sexist, exclusive beliefs of the Biblical Christians. And I will agree with all of you that our behavior could definitely be better. Ringo also has a point when he claims that we (or at least I) ignore what Jesus said to do. I know that sitting on the internet endlessly arguing these points does not help my case, but I am doing more every year and predict that the supernatural will soon come out of the closet....forcing the world at large to confront and unverifiable conclusion. I ask what "God is living in Spirit among us" even means. Unfortunately, no believer ever seems to be able to provide an answer although many atheists can easily describe how it could be determined. The Kum-Ba_Ya all-inclusive lovey-dovey globalist (and even secular) "religion" is proving to be a clever counterfeit that will sell well. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
For the record, I agree that we are charged to try and do our best and not simply wait on Him to fix it. Personally, I do both. I don't see a conflict here.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Do you mean death? Or do you mean that someday our vaunted human wisdom and belief will proclaim our species as infinite and that no end will come ever in our genetic lineage?
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yes. Yes, what? Clarify what you mean, AiG. I need to leave for work now but will reply to your reply later. I hope you are doing well, by the way.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Another clear fact is that there has consistently been a concerted effort to *prove* them wrong. Why is it that throughout history (and I don't have stats on this but stand by it) the Bible and Jesus Christ have been challenged and attacked more than any other man or any other religious book....as if the whole motive is to expose Jesus as fallible and the Bible as an edited and redacted product of men. If you can strip the Divinity out of Jesus(which you cant) and out of the Bible, you have reduced the very Creator of the Universe into an unknowable concept and a character in many books. One clear fact about Biblical prophesies is that for over 5000 years, every time one has been proven wrong, divine re-interpretation has shown that it referred to something else entirely anyway. If you teach people to throw Him away, you will be judged for this at some point in your future. God is our judge and will have perfect knowledge of all we do and could have done. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Both of what things? What two specific points are you hoping will be true?
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: In any debate, each side seeks to frame the argument. In so doing, they often quote each other and are usually accused by their opponent of quoting out of context or misrepresenting the opponent's position, at which point the opponent stands up and restates his position while dismissing his opponent's position. Its what debates and discussions are all about. Thus as I quote you, the audience will see my line of reasoning and how I use your quotes. Let them decide if I am misrepresenting your position or whether you are simply frustrated that the argument is not framed according to your liking or preference.
And so once again you simply fall back on misrepresenting my position.Why is that so common throughout your long history of posts? jar writes: Are you thus saying that a GOD is incapable of communing with humanity in any way shape or form and giving us a smidgeon of an idea about His character?
I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.jar writes: Yet you claim to have actually read the Bible. Does the book (or books) tell us to throw God away? I hope that I can teach folk to throw all the God(s) and god(s) away and that I will be judged for that at some point in my future. Why does Jesus say the following two things (among others) to His Disciples:1) Matt 10:38-41 writes: Is Jesus suggesting that He teaches not in His own name but in the name of the One who sent Him? Shall we throw that one away? It appears that the thing we are to throw away is our own life rather than Him or God. If jar teaches in the name of logic, reason, and reality is that not simply jar teaching in his own understanding? NKJV And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. "He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. And again note the exchange with Peter.
Matt 16:13-23 writes:
If we throw God away, how can we be mindful of the things of God? If we walk in logic, reason, and reality (as we objectively measure it) and place God in a box along with Ganesh, loki, and the Teletubbies, how can we be mindful of the things of God without declaring that we ourselves are all the "god" that will ever be? When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"14 So they said,"Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ. From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. 22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" 23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men." Edited by Phat, : No reason given.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And you have no stats to back up your position either. Saying that something is bullshit is a positive truth claim. You have simply decided that your "belief" is objective evidence and that the opposing positions have none. You basically teach that the characters in the book are limited to the book, pointing out the "obvious objective reality" of your claim.
The Word was the word long before the Torah or the KJV were even written....indeed long before humans could conceive of writing. Can you prove to me that what I just said is BS?The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And yet again you reframe the issue and totally ignore my questions.
The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
What ignored question did you ask that in any way relates to anything I have ever said? Specifically? There are not because my questions become judged within the framework of your belief. The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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