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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 794 (876286)
05-16-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
05-16-2020 12:00 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
Phat writes:
And why do you challenge Billy Graham's explanation?
Because it explains nothing and simply, as it always seems from Apologists, tap dances away and points to the monkey holding the begging cup.
It is not an explanation. It is simply another excuse for not presenting an explanation.
The topic though remains "When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?".
You claim no one can know yet you have also proclaimed you can know the season and that there are signs and all of the usual CCoI word salad. Not too long ago you posited a 2050 date, but again, what little support you presented showed no support for anything resembling the "Biblical End Times".
Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times"?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 12:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM jar has replied
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:52 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 137 of 794 (876293)
05-16-2020 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:04 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
Phat writes:
What does the Holy Spirit tell you?
And the answer is still valid; "How can I tell if some voice is from some Holy Spirit?"
Phat writes:
Sidenote: jar has heard this question many times before. He likely will ask how anyone could possibly hear from the Holy Spirit and how would they know?
And yet the fact is that no one has ever provided any way to determine if they are hearing from some "Holy Spirit"!
Phat writes:
So my question is this: Do you teach that "believers" will never actually know God or feel His presence until; after they die?
No Phat, I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.
I try to teach that behavior is more productive than belief and that behavior can be tested and verified while belief cannot.
Phat writes:
You simply can't wrap your mind around the idea that God is living in Spirit among us, can you?
Of course I can Phat; that is why I ask what "God is living in Spirit among us" even means. Unfortunately no believer ever seems to be able to provide an answer although many atheists can easily describe how it could be determined.
Phat writes:
I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity.
And so once again you simply fall back on misrepresenting my position.
Why is that so common throughout you long history of posts?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 2:38 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 149 of 794 (876348)
05-17-2020 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
05-17-2020 2:38 PM


Re: A Believer By Definition
Read your post above.
Where is there anything in what you post other than your marketing of your fantasies and the God and Holy Spirit that YOU create?
You make claims but refuse to support your claims.
I make claims about what is actually testable and provide the evidence that even you can test.
Is there a difference in those two approaches?
I do not claim to be a believer in some club, I am actually a registered member in that Club. The Anglican Church keeps records of each member and to which parish they are currently registered.
Yes, I have mentioned the Episcopal Church but it is also clear from your response that you either were incapable of actually reading what I wrote or comprehending what you were reading. The Episcopal Church is not some globalist humanist one world religion but rather exactly the opposite. It recognizes that there is not some globalist humanist one world religion and should not be some globalist humanist one world religion but rather many different, unique and often misunderstood different paths and religions.
It is the folk like you, silly childish "Biblical Christians" that believe they alone know the One True Religion, the One that Will Call and Rule Them All.
Phat writes:
The Kum-Ba_Ya all-inclusive lovey-dovey globalist (and even secular) "religion" is proving to be a clever counterfeit that will sell well.
Really Phat. Which of us believes that God will solve the problems and that it's not my job? Can't you even realize that it is you and the Apologists that create and market "God the Gofer".

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 2:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 152 of 794 (876459)
05-20-2020 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
05-20-2020 12:13 PM


Re: no vagueness
Phat writes:
If you teach people to throw Him away, you will be judged for this at some point in your future. God is our judge and will have perfect knowledge of all we do and could have done.
Hopefully, both of those things are true.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 05-20-2020 12:13 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 05-20-2020 4:55 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 154 of 794 (876474)
05-20-2020 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
05-20-2020 4:55 PM


Re: no vagueness
Phat writes:
If you teach people to throw Him away, you will be judged for this at some point in your future.
I hope that I can teach folk to throw all the God(s) and god(s) away and that I will be judged for that at some point in my future.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 05-20-2020 4:55 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 12:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 794 (876509)
05-21-2020 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
05-21-2020 12:15 PM


Re: no vagueness
Phat writes:
Are you thus saying that a GOD is incapable of communing with humanity in any way shape or form and giving us a smidgeon of an idea about His character?
You really can't read or comprehend anything can you?
The issue is not God but humans Phat. We have covered this very point a Brazillion times yet you never seem to learn or refuse to learn.
the question is "How can humans know they are communing with God?"
Stop playing "STUPIDO" Phat.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 12:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 3:01 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 161 of 794 (876520)
05-21-2020 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
05-21-2020 3:01 PM


Re: no vagueness
What ignored question did you ask that in anyway relates to anything I have ever said?
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 05-21-2020 3:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Phat, posted 05-22-2020 4:08 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 163 of 794 (876575)
05-22-2020 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Phat
05-22-2020 4:08 PM


Re: no vagueness
What ignored question did you ask that in anyway relates to anything I have ever said?
To what ignored questions that can even be remotely connected to the topic do you want me to respond?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Phat, posted 05-22-2020 4:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 10:36 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 166 of 794 (876584)
05-23-2020 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Phat
05-23-2020 10:36 AM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
I am expecting jars quick reply to be "What does this rambling diatribe have to do with the topic?" to which I will reply that it really doesnt...its all about Phat, baby.
And Phat's fantasies.
You object to me using the term "fantasy" and so the reasonable response would be to present some evidence or at least reasoning for your objection.
Phat writes:
I know exactly what it is that I have experienced and I have an inner peace and confirmation when I pray that confirms my communion with God individually at least. To attempt to explain it or teach it corporately is another matter. In fact, I think I have stopped teaching it among people I know here in town and rather showing it through my actions and personality. As for you guys at the Forum, I struggle to make my points and frame the issue. Sometimes I think I waste too much time her, but our arguments serve a purpose in that they challenge my beliefs and allow me to think outside the apologetic box. Not that I feel comfortable doing that. You say I refuse to learn. I say that I disagree with what you teach or what I perceive as your teaching.
You admit that you cannot support or explain or rationalize how you can know "... know exactly what it is that I have experienced and I have an inner peace and confirmation when I pray that confirms my communion with God individually at least." and yet your only statement is once again "I say that I disagree with what you teach or what I perceive as your teaching.", once again without any reasoning, rationalization or supporting arguments.
How does inner peace provide any confirmation of any external communion?
Phat writes:
What gets me about the EvC arguments is the claim that God is simply a character in a book and that the book is (or was) authored,edited, redacted and taught by men and men alone.
Why does that bother you?
Is there any evidence at all that any God(s) or god(s) are not simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds?
Is there any evidence that all God(s) or god(s) are simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds?
I'll try to address the latter question and look forward to your response to the former question.
Almost every single god or God we can possibly name exists only because we have a written or oral record that contains description of the character and nature of that god or God. Most are pretty specific and consistent. The various Gods mentioned in Vedas and other Hindu scripture each have specific defining characteristics and recognizable forms. The same is true of the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Norse, Native American, Taoist, Buddhist religious deities and spirits.
But they all are mutually exclusive (with the possible exception of the Greek/Roman pantheon) and most everyone outside the particular religion readily acknowledges that all the others are simply human creations.
The outlier are the Hebraic religions. There we find no uniformity in the descriptions or characteristics of the God(s) and god(s) contained in the stories. In fact we find mutually exclusive descriptions of the character called God throughout the writings.
In addition, as seen here at EvC even those who profess to be Christians cannot arrive at an adequate and acceptable description of the Christian God that can be supported by what is written in the stories without excluding almost all of the other aspects and characteristics found in the Bible stories.
The only way to allow the God of Genesis 1 and the God of Genesis 2&3 to be the same critter is to acknowledge that each description is the God as seen or imagined by one group of people at one time in history. In other words, the two Gods are each the creation of some author or authors within a particular mythos.
Based on the facts outlined above it is reasonable to say that all God(s) or god(s) are simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds.
There may well be some GOD (I happen to believe there is) but it is not any of the God(s) or god(s) we can read about, write about or even discuss.
The other big issue again revolves around communion.
You say I try to limit God but as I have pointed out, my issue is not about what some God can or cannot do but what some human can or cannot do. If you claim that God is capable of communing with a human than the question is, how do the human do that? What does that God change in a human that enables communion?
Once that can be answered we can move on to "why do it do that only sometimes and do that in a way that is not uniform and does not even seem to connect to the same god?"
Remember that for every Christian the Communes with some Christian God a Hindu communes with some Hindu God and a Greek communed with some Greek God and an Egyptian communed with some Egyptian God and a Muslim communed with Allah and ...
Edited by jar, : ever + y

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 10:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 12:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 170 of 794 (876593)
05-23-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
05-23-2020 12:11 PM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
I know you dont like it and even go so far as to mock it, but yes, I do have the audacity and hubris to proclaim that my God is unique among the many gods of literature.
But once again, that assertion has nothing to do with the question it is supposed to address which was ...
quote:
Is there any evidence that all God(s) or god(s) are simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds?
Phat writes:
I would argue that as Christians we are to narrow our focus to be on Jesus Christ as God. God is unknowable otherwise.
Yet Jesus Christ is only knowable as a character in stories written by humans.
Phat writes:
And Jesus, through whom the world was created, is present in every instance....judging the thoughts and intentions of the human heart.(behavior, perhaps?)
And then once again you wander off into word salad. What does "Jesus ... is present in every instance"even mean?
What does "...judging the thoughts and intentions of the human heart." even mean?
Edited by jar, : "

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 12:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 4:30 PM jar has replied
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 06-11-2020 12:47 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 172 of 794 (876601)
05-23-2020 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Phat
05-23-2020 4:30 PM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
jar writes:
What does "Jesus ... is present in every instance"even mean?
What does "...judging the thoughts and intentions of the human heart." even mean?
what it means is that the Holy Spirit is in Communion with us.( Not all of us.) Care to argue that? It all does boil down to observable behavior anyway, so essentially I can't really refute your position regarding behavior.
Back to word salad and tap dancing.
You claim that the Holy Spirit is in communion with us (not all of us) yet don't explain what the hell that means or how anyone could know if they are among those who are (Not all of us).
It's impossible to argue something that has absolutely no meaning.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Phat, posted 05-23-2020 4:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 192 of 794 (876696)
05-26-2020 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Phat
05-26-2020 8:00 AM


Re: JarThink
Phat writes:
With that kind of thinking, why are only some let in your front door?
Would your parents let you in their door?
Think Phat, think.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:29 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 195 of 794 (876699)
05-26-2020 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Phat
05-26-2020 8:29 AM


Re: Gatekeepers
Think Phat, really try it. You might even like it.
Would a loving father let his child in the house?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:29 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Phat, posted 05-26-2020 8:52 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 229 of 794 (877018)
06-01-2020 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Phat
06-01-2020 1:58 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
"Type and Shadow" is simply "Smoke and Mirrors"; it is word salad the apologists market because they know their audience decided to turn their brains off and check them at the door. Pitiful!

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 1:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Phat, posted 06-02-2020 1:23 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 233 of 794 (877039)
06-02-2020 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Phat
06-02-2020 1:23 AM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
Phat writes:
How is the stated behavior of the King of Tyre any different than what one would expect from satan?
Yes. In the Bible Satan is simply a tool that God uses. To consider Satan as evil your apologists need to ignore as always almost all of what is actually written in the Bible.
Type & Shadow is just another Snake Oil.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Phat, posted 06-02-2020 1:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-03-2020 7:54 AM jar has replied

  
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