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Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 104 From: Ottawa, ON, Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: NvC-1: What is the premise of Naturalism in Biology? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: Seems like you are channeling Lewis Caroll. "Words mean what I say they mean."
Dictionary definitions are often not adequate in scientific discussions. ringo writes: In order to observe there has to be something to observe. The reality is the information/data. Reality exists. Observations of reality (data) require on observer (perceiver).He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: The reality is the information/data. If the reality is the information, what happens when, having counted the onions in the field and determined that there are 1,000, the farmer walks away and a pig eats one of the onions? The reality now is that there are now 999 onions but the information that the farmer created has stayed ay 1,000. Unless the information changes as reality changes, they are independent.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Tangle writes: Of course the information changes. It is simply updated data/information. However it does not change the fact that at an earlier point in time the data/information was that there were 1000 onions. (That brings a tear to the eye. ) For example the data/information is that right now the temperature is 18 degrees C. The data/information for 2 hours ago is that the temperature was i6 degrees. Data/information has a time component to it. If the reality is the information, what happens when, having counted the onions in the field and determined that there are 1,000, the farmer walks away and a pig eats one of the onions? The reality now is that there are now 999 onions but the information that the farmer created has stayed ay 1,000. Unless the information changes as reality changes, they are independent.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
The reality is the information/data. No. Reality is the matter/energy of which the universe is made.
In order to observe there has to be something to observe. We observe the reality. Observation is not the reality. As jar would say (maybe) reality is the landscape; the result of observation is the map. We observe the relationships between matter/energy and spacetime. In our minds we put measures to these relationships thus creating data, facts and information. We hold in our minds this information giving definition to the relationships, approximating them in our mathematical notation and then calling them the laws of physics. We create the data. We create the information. From these we then approximate the laws of the universe. And we can do so very accurately by refining the measures we use to form the data, facts and information from further observations.Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Richard L. Wang Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 104 From: Ottawa, ON, Canada Joined: |
During the past two decades, with the development of genome sequencing technology and computational methods, bioinformatics, molecular evolution, molecular genetics and genomics have made great progress. The progress of these disciplines deepens the fundamental understanding of basic biological processes, especially the biological evolution, and provides the foundation for their applications in many important fields. In the recent coronavirus pandemic, the analyses of the structures and variation of the covid-19 coronavirus RNA and the relationship with other coronavirus RNA occupy the center position in fighting against covid-19 coronavirus pandemic. All these subjects are included in empirical science, not abstract philosophy.
------ As for the biological processes related to non-material elements don’t follow the natural laws, consider an example, 1+1=2 can be operated by electronic circuits in calculators or smartphones and biological circuits in our brains. If only the natural laws play roles, can calculators, smartphones or our brains perform this operation? For reference only, let’s discuss it later.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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GDR writes: Of course the information changes. The farmer's information - which he created (because the onions can't count) - does not change. He possesses the only information available about the number of onions.
is simply updated data/information. How is the information updated? The farmer still thinks it's 1,000 and he's the only thing in the universe that knows it. Certainly the onions don't. The object is not the information about the object. The two are independent. This is a very obvious point, why are you resisting it? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
1+1=2 can be operated by electronic circuits in calculators or smartphones and biological circuits in our brains. can calculators, smartphones or our brains perform this operation? First you give a statement that 1+1=2 can be solved in calculators, smartphones and brains. Then you ask if it can be solved in calculators, smartphones and brains. If your statement is correct, and I can assure you it is, then the answer to the question is obvious and I see no utility in asking. Why ask the question?Factio Republicana delenda est.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Just checked and Alexa can also solve 1 + 1...
Why is this thread even open??????????????????????????????????
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: It seems to me that calculators can perform the operation and they do so because their components do follow natural law. Calculators are technology, not magic and technology relies on natural laws. Cellphones are more complex but they, too operate entirely according to natural law. Indeed, carrying out addition through electronics is well understood: Consider a simpler device, a player piano. You can wave a piece of sheet music at it all you like, it won’t make any difference. But if you supply the music in the form of a roll designed for that model of player piano, install it correctly and provide power, it will play the music. But it does so because the physical roll interacts with the components of the piano, according to natural law. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Yes, naturalistic science functions perfectly well in this instance without any need for your philosophy. That is not exactly helpful to your argument.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
He possesses the only information available about the number of onions. No the farmer is not the only one who has the information. In fact, the farmer no longer has the information. The reality of the universe knows. That reality is that there are only 999 onions. This is the reality of the universe and by definition cannot be wrong. All the information about the exact state of everything in the universe, including all mathematical and biological expressions and relationships, in perfect order with perfect accuracy exists in the ephemeral non-corporeal information ther that permeates all of spacetime and beyond. Though the Universal Information ther is not accessible to any creature, sentient or otherwise, anywhere in the universe its foundation in reality assures its existence, omnipresence and its accuracy. Think Q from Star Trek TNG.Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Only 991 more to go.
Factio Republicana delenda est.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
No. Words have different meanings in different contexts. In a precise context like science, you can not just interchange words willy-nilly.
Seems like you are channeling Lewis Caroll. "Words mean what I say they mean." GDR writes:
No. The reality is matter and energy. The data is the individual measurements. The information is the interpretation that gives the observations "meaning". That meaning depends on whether the observer is a human or an ant, etc. There is no inherent meaning in the matter and energy. In order to observe there has to be something to observe. The reality is the information/data."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: Nobody ever said there was meaning. Matter and energy provide information/data that can be measured. There is no inherent meaning in the matter and energy.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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