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Author Topic:   What have we accomplished?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 3 of 263 (876706)
05-26-2020 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ben!
05-24-2020 2:55 PM


Ben Kenobi Returns
Hi Ben! Gosh I remember you! You were even an administrator here for awhile.
What are your goals in being here?
Good question. I think first of all that I have grown comfortable here as my fellow members are my ideological supporters and challengers. When I was growing up, I remember a local coffee shop where a bunch of old men gathered on Saturday mornings to discuss and debate politics, religion, current events, and to share what was going on in their respective families and circle of influence. Perhaps they got a bit deeper then we do here, for the internet is more anonymous by design.
Do you feel they've been accomplished?
Not entirely. I need more human interaction in my local community. Sometimes I fear that sitting on a chair in front of a computer for too long a time robs me of the time and opportunity to do that.
ObiWan writes:
I'm happy to share my own thoughts on the thread if admins are so kind as to promote this.
Yes, please catch us up! Talk about whatever you would like...after all you started this thread.
Edited by Phat, : added features!

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ben!, posted 05-24-2020 2:55 PM Ben! has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 5 of 263 (876712)
05-26-2020 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Percy
05-26-2020 9:14 AM


Its A Small World After All
Percy writes:
The website itself took a big hit around 2011 (give or take a couple years, I don't remember exactly) when Google went to mobile-centric crawlers. Sites not deemed mobile-friendly were severely downgraded on searches. It turned out to matter a great deal, and within a few years we were getting almost no new members.
Are you happy with us being small?
I think if we were a bigger forum than I would be suspending and banning people more often for dragging topics off track...unless I got to know them over time, in which case the rules would relax somewhat. One recent example is that guy that RAZD wanted to be banished after concluding him a troll. Which is the reason I don't pick on any members now. If we get a troll we boot them, but I even give potential trolls a chance...and they usually just go away themselves without the need of banning them. The spammers rarely make it through Moose anyway.
So Ben, what line of work are you in? Are you ready for the next 6 months? Where is America headed?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : tying up a few loose ends

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Percy, posted 05-26-2020 9:14 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 263 (877175)
06-07-2020 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Ben!
05-29-2020 7:00 AM


PhD in Anthropogeny Leads To Some Phat Questions
So my curiosity got the best of me and I had to look up Anthropogeny. I suppose that there is a point along the evolutionary chain where a Bonobo or an early biological ancestor of ancient and modern-day humans actually became a Homo Sapiens proper. Perhaps it was at this point that hypothetically a Creator of all seen and unseen could join that stream and commune with His little creations apart from simply communing as basic animal instinct. After all, would some Dolphins or Great Apes get to a point before Homo Sapiens where they would ponder their own instincts? And as we ponder the musings of ancient goat herders, as religiously inclined humans are referred as, might we consider the possibility that the gods they "made up" might have all been products of their imagination until (and unless) at some point the "living instinct" or the human character of a Creator of all seen and unseen was finally found..(or at least they so imagined) and began to influence their thoughts and deepest yearnings and wishes.
  • Though my critics and ideological challengers here at EvC will point out that there are far more encounters with human imagined godlike characters throughout all ancestral civilizations, I am proposing that an actual candidate exists among these imaginations which developed into the modern religious belief(s) which humanity has today. And of course, being as certain as I am that I am part of the group which communes with the Real One, I assert that this Real One has as a goal mental and spiritual communion with all of the human species at some point. What happens after that is anyone's guess.
    Wiki writes:
    So anthropology is the study of humans and anthropogeny, is the study of what humans 'gave birth to', to its core definition, although there have been many confusions by those who do not really have an understanding of the word's origins.
  • My third question is to ask you what you think is the answer as to whether humans simply made any and all gods up or whether there is a possibility that at least some of us have made contact with the Real One.
    Edited by Phat, : fixed a few grammar mistakes and misspellings.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Ben!, posted 05-29-2020 7:00 AM Ben! has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 20 of 263 (878445)
    06-30-2020 10:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 19 by Trump won
    06-29-2020 5:15 PM


    R.I.P. Chris Says Something Wise
    RIP to the dead greats that made this place great. robinrohan, buz, razd, asgara
    Death causes all of us to ponder our own mortality especially when it is someone close to us. Its a fact of life that social media has become simply another medium of human interaction. Its easy to troll...I've often written a post out of knee-jerk emotionalism without thinking long enough about what I really should have said. We all do.
    EvC serves a useful function in my life. I'm not quite sure if I can articulate what that function is, but I'll get back to you on it.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 19 by Trump won, posted 06-29-2020 5:15 PM Trump won has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 21 of 263 (878446)
    06-30-2020 10:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 18 by Tangle
    06-08-2020 2:57 PM


    50 Years Behind
    Tangled "progressive" European writes:
    The USA can be a surprisingly parochial place, many of their beliefs seem to be about 50 years behind Northern Europe and seem utterly bizarrely to most of us here.
    I'll remember this quote for future debate. Trying to put it in some sort of context.
    Ben started this thread asking "What Have We Accomplished"? So I guess my question is : what has Europe accomplished in 50 years that the US needs to learn?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by Tangle, posted 06-08-2020 2:57 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 22 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 12:27 PM Phat has replied
     Message 161 by ramoss, posted 07-14-2020 6:42 PM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 23 of 263 (878517)
    06-30-2020 8:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 22 by Tangle
    06-30-2020 12:27 PM


    Re: 50 Years Behind
    Tangle writes:
    Your primitive Christian beliefs are holding back real social progress. Most of Northern Europe has already dropped the more stupid beliefs and the rest are in decline or have become benign.
    In my opinion, your progressive beliefs will be found to be lacking what we have needed all along: Christ, as exemplified in Christian Beliefs.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 22 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 12:27 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 25 by Tangle, posted 07-02-2020 2:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 30 of 263 (878766)
    07-04-2020 8:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 29 by Tangle
    07-04-2020 6:55 AM


    Airing The Arguments
    Good morning, O Tangled One. And howdy-do to you also, MTW! The conversations on these boards are sometimes quite entertaining, and I for one will confess that I sometimes actually read them! Of course Tangle and I know somewhat of each other, our respective positions and experiences in life, and from whence we derive at our thought processes. (and since I chose to address this reply specifically to Tangle, I ask Tangle to consider my reply also as addressed to Mikey. He used to be a member here at EvC, you know. )
    First off, Mikey, I did click on your link where you attempted to expose the ignorance of our boy from Europe: Driewerf. Tangle and I tangled earlier about the definition of what progressive beliefs actually were:
    Phat writes:
    In my opinion, your progressive beliefs will be found to be lacking
    Tangle writes:
    They're called progressive because they make social progress - they contribute positively to the well-being of humanity.(...)Your guy has had 2,000 years to make a difference. I reckon that's long enough to demonstrate beyond all doubt that believing in fictional sky daddies doesn't get much done. The world has moved on Phat; we've grown up, get off your knees and do something useful.
    For the record, I encourage Tangle to get on his knees and ask the Creator of all seen and unseen for wisdom!
    Anyway...
    As I was introduced to an entirely new cast of characters from Evolution Fairy Tales I began to size all of them up.I read some of their replies:
    quote:
    • MikeTheWiz, Moderator/member. Age: 36. Christian Creationist--England
    • driewerf(now banned) Age: 43. ( no affiliation) Atheist--Belgium
    • Fjuri,Veteran Member. Age: 31 (no affiliation) Atheist-- Belgium

    The list goes on. And my question to Mike is this: Mike, first of all, one of the primary reasons that EvC Member Faith used to frustrate me so much is because she took what was and is basically a spiritual argument and attempted to add intellectual apologetics to it---which cannot really win. I see you doing much the same thing. Can you share with us what it is that makes your Christian Belief real to you? Because basically at the end of the day, Jesus Christ is alive or He isnt.
    Tangle seems convinced that the whole discussion is incredulous and cant for the life of him entertain any possible notions that Christ is alive and that God is real. Another thing, Mike. Humble yourself. Quit acting like you are irrefutable. Roll with the punches and learn how to argue and persuade more effectively.
    As for you, Tangled One, I'm not sure if anything I say to you will penetrate the intellectual defense you have set up around your ears and "reasoning" mind.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 29 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2020 6:55 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 31 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2020 8:21 AM Phat has replied
     Message 36 by Percy, posted 07-04-2020 12:53 PM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 32 of 263 (878768)
    07-04-2020 8:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 31 by Tangle
    07-04-2020 8:21 AM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    double post
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2020 8:21 AM Tangle has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 33 of 263 (878769)
    07-04-2020 8:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 31 by Tangle
    07-04-2020 8:21 AM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    But why have you concluded that what I preach has no truth to it? Thee stumbling block is the same as the stumbling blocks mentioned in the good book itself.
    Dictionary.com writes:
    an obstacle or hindrance to progress, belief, or understanding.
    Romans 14:13 writes:
    Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine thisnot to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.
    1 Cor 1:18-30 writes:
    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
    "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
    20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
    26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
    Now I know that scripture does not impress you, but my request is that you stop from mocking it as outdated. Consider what is being said. Evaluate based on content. And show me some of your "esteemed textual critiques" from the bunch whom you claim to be so wise. And keep in mind that having 1 or more degrees is in and of itself unimpressive to me, save for the discipline that it took to earn them. I will hold an effective conversation with any of them any day of the week and mind you I will hold my own.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2020 8:21 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 34 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2020 9:47 AM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 37 of 263 (878793)
    07-04-2020 4:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 36 by Percy
    07-04-2020 12:53 PM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    Its about time you and had a discussion! OK, I'll answer, but right now i'm out the door for work. I work 230p-11pm usually. Its a blessing to have a job yet a challenge in these COVID 19 times. I wash my masks every night in lysol and have nitrile gloves, so im ready to step into the battle zone of 2020 reality. I pray daily and will start to focus more on EvC as well as Safeway. If God as I understand Him is real, He will be in communion with us but He wont simply protect us as would a whimsical magic Genie.
    Percy writes:
    The damage that belief in a god constructed by men has done to you is evident to everyone but you. It's like a bad habit you just can't kick.
    And why would I want to kick the Creator of all seen and unseen to the curb? Science cant answer everything. See my newest topic in the Book Nook.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 36 by Percy, posted 07-04-2020 12:53 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 53 by Percy, posted 07-07-2020 10:21 AM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 38 of 263 (878818)
    07-05-2020 9:58 AM
    Reply to: Message 36 by Percy
    07-04-2020 12:53 PM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    Percy writes:
    The damage that belief in a god constructed by men has done to you is evident to everyone but you. It's like a bad habit you just can't kick.
    I can see your argument that basically states that the "God" I believe in was essentially described, written about, and essentially "constructed" by Man.
    At best, I likely could argue that God as I understand Him was revealed to me, verified as such through the writings and descriptions by others, and thus defined by and constructed by me myself.
    I believe though cannot objectively prove that God as I understand Him was revealed to me. The Born Again Experience, if you will. A onetime event, occurring roughly early February of 1993 and recollected as a definite onetime (yet ongoing) event that began a lifelong transformation. Why on earth would I even want to seek to kick such a habit? Have you joined with jar in urging me to "throw God away"?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 36 by Percy, posted 07-04-2020 12:53 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 12:37 PM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 40 of 263 (878844)
    07-05-2020 4:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
    07-05-2020 12:37 PM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    Nahhhh...im way more open than she was. I wont give up my belief, though. Im not as weak as you were...you placed far too much value on science.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 12:37 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 41 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 7:43 PM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 42 of 263 (878857)
    07-06-2020 8:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
    07-05-2020 7:43 PM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    ringo writes:
    Now you're scoffing at science.
    There's no such thing as placing too much value on reality.
    You are changing the words up in the middle of the stream!
    Science is an intrinsic part of reality. Science is not all of reality.
    Granted many beliefs are unfounded. Other beliefs, however, are rational. And I know that you and others have challenged my particular notion of rationality...as I myself sometimes do (privately of course)
    And I will say it again. I won't simply give up my belief. I know too much, though as you once cracked "I don't know half as much as I think I know.
    That all being said, I am a different breed of Christian than Faith was, though not so submissive to Socratic thinking and Language In Thought & Action as is our boy jar. I, like each of you, am unique. There is no such thing as an artificial intelligence bot that is compiled of ringo, AZPaul3, and Tangle.
    Just as there is no hybrid of Faith,Phat, and the late Buzsaw!
    Edited by Phat, : spellcheck

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 7:43 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 43 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2020 8:51 AM Phat has replied
     Message 45 by ringo, posted 07-06-2020 9:20 AM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 44 of 263 (878860)
    07-06-2020 9:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 43 by Tangle
    07-06-2020 8:51 AM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    Beliefs, by definition, are not rational.
    Ok, so I will go with that.
    But they are not necessarily delusional or false simply because they are unable to be captured and quantified through evidence. You chose to believe in nothing un-evidenced. Fine. That works for you. But it is not the default. You dont get to frame the issue within your atheistic materialistic construct. There are far too many believers who have had very real experiences. We all are not delusional.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 43 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2020 8:51 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 46 by ringo, posted 07-06-2020 9:23 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 47 by jar, posted 07-06-2020 9:33 AM Phat has replied
     Message 49 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2020 11:37 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 48 of 263 (878871)
    07-06-2020 11:23 AM
    Reply to: Message 47 by jar
    07-06-2020 9:33 AM


    Re: Airing The Arguments
    Cant you get it through your skull that one will never find evidence that validates belief? Evidence is not the only standard in consideration here or nobody would know anything about God.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 47 by jar, posted 07-06-2020 9:33 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 50 by jar, posted 07-06-2020 12:44 PM Phat has replied

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