NvC-1: What is the premise of Naturalism in Biology?

You wrote Cavendish calculated the gravitational constant in his famous experiments. Maxwell and others were able to measure the permitivity and permiability of space which allowed them to calculate the speed of light. Einstein was able to calculate the distortion of spacetime due to velocity.What I wrote is Physics cannot calculate numbers.Cavendish, Maxwell and Einstein are PHYSICISTS, not PHYSICS.As for other questions, you can find the answers from my messages. There is no need to repeat it again.

Essentially all you have is assertions without any actual evidence. Well, one of my assertion is that Physics cannot calculate numbers. How to provide evidence for non-existing thing? I don’t know. You guys should give an example to show that physics can calculate numbers to prove that my assertion is wrong, as Taq(327) did. Unfortunately, Taq proved that PHYSICISTS can calculate, not PHYSICS can calculate.The translation process proceeds by chemistry, following natural law. You guys repeat, repeat and repeat such assertions. Taq(Message 327) wrote Physics underlies neurobiology which produces all of those things. Physics underlies neurobiology which produces all of those things. These assertions are the same as Physics is everywhere I wrote. But why don’t you guys try to explain Translate genetic information AAA on mRNA to amino acid information Lys to make protein? WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa?Bioinformatic laws. Of course. The Genetic Code is the bioinformatic law of translation process. There is always regulation for bioinformatic process. The following is the content of Chapter 16: Gene Expression of the textbook, Biology / OpenStax
Chapter 16: Gene Expression
16.1 Regulation of Gene Expression
16.2 Prokaryotic Gene Regulation
16.3 Eukaryotic Epigenetic Gene Regulation
16.4 Eukaryotic Transcription Gene Regulation
16.5 Eukaryotic Post-transcriptional Gene Regulation
16.6 Eukaryotic Translational and Post-translational Gene Regulation
16.7 Cancer and Gene RegulationThere are no such regulations in chemistry, because chemical processes involve only matter, not information.

quote:

---

Essentially all you have is assertions without any actual evidence. Well, one of my assertion is that Physics cannot calculate numbers.

---

If the mind is supervenient on the operations of the physical brain then any calculations it performs are ultimately being performed by physics. As I have said before this is a contentious issue which cannot be shown to be true or false at present.

quote:

---

why don’t you guys try to explain Translate genetic information AAA on mRNA to amino acid information Lys to make protein? WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa?

---

Why do you waste time with these. For the first the actual prices of translation is chemical as I have said, and the origins are not available to us, or should we expect them to be. The second concerns the mind and I have repeatedly given my reasons for avoiding that topic.The real question is why you repeatedly keep talking about areas where we are ignorant - and where you cannot prove your point because of that ignorance.

quote:

---

Bioinformatic laws. Of course. The Genetic Code is the bioinformatic law of translation process. There is always regulation for bioinformatic process. The following is the content of Chapter 16: Gene Expression of the textbook, Biology / OpenStax
Chapter 16: Gene Expression
16.1 Regulation of Gene Expression
16.2 Prokaryotic Gene Regulation
16.3 Eukaryotic Epigenetic Gene Regulation
16.4 Eukaryotic Transcription Gene Regulation
16.5 Eukaryotic Post-transcriptional Gene Regulation
16.6 Eukaryotic Translational and Post-translational Gene Regulation
16.7 Cancer and Gene Regulation

​

There are no such regulations in chemistry, because chemical processes involve only matter, not information.

---

Since all of them are based in - very complex - chemistry your assertion is obviously incorrect. It seems that your bioinformatics laws are merely higher level descriptions of physical processes.

Thank you for the entertainment. A giggle in the middle of the day always cheers me up.

All of that is controlled by enzyme kinetics and and binding between complementary nucleotide bases. It's all natural processes.

Your statement is against logic: as I pointed out in what physics can do, what physics cannot, physics cannot calculate numbers, how can any calculations are ultimately being performed by physics?The same is WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa: physics and chemistry don’t know languages at all, how physicochemical processes in brain can translate language?

On what I wrote in RLW(332)

quote:

---

There is always regulation for bioinformatic process. The following is the content of Chapter 16: Gene Expression of the textbook, Biology / OpenStax
Chapter 16: Gene Expression
16.1 Regulation of Gene Expression
16.2 Prokaryotic Gene Regulation
16.3 Eukaryotic Epigenetic Gene Regulation
16.4 Eukaryotic Transcription Gene Regulation
16.5 Eukaryotic Post-transcriptional Gene Regulation
16.6 Eukaryotic Translational and Post-translational Gene Regulation
16.7 Cancer and Gene Regulation

---

PaulK’s comment -

quote:

---

your bioinformatics laws are merely higher level descriptions of physical processes.

---

It seems that you know physical processes cannot explain these regulations, so you suggest higher level descriptions of physical processes. What does it mean? If you could explore and find the higher level descriptions of physical processes which can explain these regulations, you would win Nobel prize.Taq’s comment —

quote:

---

All of that is controlled by enzyme kinetics and binding between complementary nucleotide bases. It's all natural processes.

---

The level of your comment is the same as the level of Taq(Message 267) comment on translation that It is the natural laws of hydrogen bonding that governs the binding between the complementary bases in the tRNA and the mRNA codon.For Taq(Message 267), the key point is translation, but in your opinion the key point is the H-bond.For Taq(Message 335), the key point is regulations, the control of these bioinformatic processes, but in your opinion the key point is biochemistry, which doesn’t know control at all.The basic principle of genetic processes is to produce the right protein at the right time, right place and right quantity. Producing right protein is performed by transcription and translation processes, while at the right time, right place and right quantity is determined by these regulations: they control the bioinformatic processes.

quote:

---

Your statement is against logic: as I pointed out in what physics can do, what physics cannot, physics cannot calculate numbers, how can any calculations are ultimately being performed by physics?

---

I would expect a scientist to understand the difference between logic and his personal opinion. It seems that you do not.

quote:

---

The same is WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa: physics and chemistry don’t know languages at all, how physicochemical processes in brain can translate language?

---

When science discovers how the mind operates we can revisit this question. Until then any answer would be speculative.And I note that once again you evade the whole issue of genetic information to try to talk about the mind. It’s amazing how often you repeat this tactic, despite the fact that it cannot work.

quote:

---

It seems that you know physical processes cannot explain these regulations, so you suggest higher level descriptions of physical processes.

---

On the contrary, I know that physical processes can and do explain them. However for convenience more abstract explanations are used in this context, since the details are complex. For comparison consider logic circuits - they are typically described in terms of inputs and outputs, not the arrangement of transistors. Or the use of gas pressure rather than listing the motions of individual molecules,

quote:

---

What does it mean? If you could explore and find the higher level descriptions of physical processes which can explain these regulations, you would win Nobel prize.

---

The higher level descriptions are those in the textbook you cited. Repeating those won’t win me a Nobel.

The key point is basic chemistry. Biomolecules stick to one another because of chemistry and physics.What regulates the expression of a gene? The binding of transcription factors to the DNA upstream of the gene. What controls the binding of the transcription factors? Chemistry and physics. The physical shape and chemical characteristics of the amino acids across the protein determine what it will bind to. Certain amino acid sequences produce a folded protein that specifically binds to specific DNA sequences. If those sequences are upstream of a gene, those proteins will bind to that region. Other physical and chemical features on the protein then promote the binding of RNA polymerase to the DNA molecule, and what results is RNA transcription. ALL of it is physics and chemistry.Transcription factor - WikipediaYou should also study the classic lac promoter found in E. coli:lac operon - WikipediaLet's also look at post-transcriptional regulation by micro-RNA's. How does that work? micro-RNA's bind to a protein complex in the same way that other proteins bind to DNA promoter regions. The micro-RNA has a 7 or 8 base section called a seed sequence, and if a 3' untranslated region (3' UTR) of an mRNA has a sequence complementary the mico-RNA/protein complex will bind to that 3' UTR. The presence of that bound complex prevents the mRNA from being translated into protein. That is how post-transcriptional gene regulation works, and all of it occurs through natural processes. Atlas of Genetics and Cytogenetics in Oncology and HaematologyEdited by Taq, : No reason given.Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Logical analysis is a very important and powerful tool in science and even in daily life. In many cases, people do not need to know the details of the structure or process, but they can make a judgement: is this OK or not.For the translation between English and French, there must be a table of corresponding vocabulary, such as WATER in English < = > EAU in French. Obviously, this is not a chemical or physical process, but an information process. There is no need to discover the detail of how the mind operates, people can make the judgement.

If all bioinformatic processes could be broken down into a series of chemical and physical processes, people would never know how the basic principle of genetic processes — to produce the right protein at the right time, right place and right quantity — works. It you have time, you can read p.103 — p.108 of my book Darwinian-Naturalism is Pseudoscience: Science Studies What God Created. In that section, I analyzed the transcription regulation of lac operon of E. coli, and demonstrated that the function of regulation is similar to logic circuits in digital circuits, or similar to IF sentences in software.

quote:

---

For the translation between English and French, there must be a table of corresponding vocabulary, such as WATER in English < = > EAU in French. Obviously, this is not a chemical or physical process, but an information process. There is no need to discover the detail of how the mind operates, people can make the judgement.

---

You seem to be saying that physics can do it, just as physics translates the genetic code. But of course the question was not about the translation, it was the explanation for the differences, which really will involve the mind.

quote:

---

If all bioinformatic processes could be broken down into a series of chemical and physical processes, people would never know how the basic principle of genetic processes — to produce the right protein at the right time, right place and right quantity — works.

---

On the contrary, that is the only way to fully understand how it works. And yes, it can be broken down in that way. However there are contexts where the details of how it works is of little relevance and a high-level view of what happens is far more useful.

quote:

---

It you have time, you can read p.103 — p.108 of my book Darwinian-Naturalism is Pseudoscience: Science Studies What God Created. In that section, I analyzed the transcription regulation of lac operon of E. coli, and demonstrated that the function of regulation is similar to logic circuits in digital circuits, or similar to IF sentences in software.

---

I have reasons for not paying money for your book. And really a similarity at the level of high level descriptions hardly seems relevant. It still boils down to chemistry.

Gosh, you're right! It can only be supernatural!