When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

Well, Romans was an interoffice memo. It was Paul speaking in terms that were agreed upon and exactly the same thing you seem to do quite often. Like you and the Apologists he very often does use word salad and it seemed to work just about like it does today.Romans is a memo and should be treated like any interoffice memo. Bat as seen in your example above, what the Apologists and carny medicine men do is take pieces parts out of context and try to align bits from Romans with pieces parts from Titus or somewhere else but never take the next step, just as you did in the post I'm replying to now, to explain what the pieces parts mean. Yet you NEVER actually explain what it means. You can't explain what it means even though there really is a meaning and that meaning negates almost all of your asserted beliefs. I've answered that for you many, many, many times. Yes, I believe that GOD does exist even though I also understand that belief is illogical, irrational and pretty much irrelevant. And yet again, I've answered that many, many, many times for you.When Jesus was alive and living among us I believe he was simply human, nothing more. Yes, there are hints of the Holy Spirit in the Pentacost tale. But it really is pretty much missing everywhere else and even there is is not characterized as a separate critter but more like inspiration.And since you continue to claim that I know what you mean or some bumper sticker mean please treat me as an infant and explain it again.

I ASKED you: What does it MEAN to believe? Is it necessary to parrot Lord! Lord! or do you have to DO what He wanted? It doesn't say that He is the ONLY conduit. It says that He came to be A conduit. On the contrary, that's EXACTLY how Jesus said it works in Matthew 25.

Hi Phat, My experiences here has caused me to do a lot of deep study that I would probably never have done had I not found EvC. I don't think Stephen Hawking made that statement. I do believe he said I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science.He an Hartley came up with an 'instanton' because in a vacuum there are particles that appear and disappear spontaneously. About the instanton his statement was that if one appeared it would create a universe just like ours. Which was an assumption on his part as he had no evidence to support the claim. That is also the reason it never caught on and received any support other that cavediver that I know of.If you remember I drove cavediver bananas asking him and others about how a vacuum could exist in non existence.There would have to be existence for a vacuum to exist in.nonexistence=the fact or state of not existing or not being real or presentexistence=the fact or state of living or having objective reality.The standard theory requires the universe to have a beginning to exist. Everyone says there is nothing outside of the universe as it is self contained. That would require the universe to begin to exist out of non existence. That is a scientific impossibility.It has been proven that non-life cannot produce life.God Bless,

Proven, has it? Please, show me this proof?

You surely are up early (or late). I too keep odd hours. One never knows if I will be asleep or awake.

It means having a changed life. Yes, as you have said and as jar has said, it is about DOING and not simply BELIEVING.It is not about religion, but it IS about Jesus. Jesus Christ is Gods character. There is but ONE God. There are of course many gods within the context of human imagination, but in terms of the reality of the known universe (and I believe even in the context of the unknown possibility of a plethora of multiverses) there is ONE God. Jesus Christ alone is the ONE way to commune with this Creator of all seen and unseen. I know you will attempt to challenge it. You will claim that I am simply preaching or posting what jar calls word salad. You might even ask me for evidence. You always do. Maybe we should just lay aside our differences and go feed people. I'll come up there and we can feed, clothe, and encourage the people in your little town....but I will need a place to stay for a week once I get a vacation. Or you can come down here to Denver and stay on my couch. We can go out and feed and encourage some of the local homeless. My friends do it all the time and I sometimes join them on my days off, though I could do it more. You kept saying I never did what Jesus said so it challenged me to do it more often.Now back to Jesus: So you are claiming that Jesus is simply one of many paths to communion with God, Creator of all seen and unseen? You are of course free to believe whatever you want. I believe that Jesus is the first and last conduit. I believe that He is the ONLY Conduit. You claim that His message is more important than He is, but I would argue that He is as important as His Word. Does He not say that no man comes to the Father but by me?Finally, about Matthew 25. Granted Matthew 25 mentions doing versus believing. Granted Matthew 25 mentions those who listen and do the message without being religious or transformed. They do it because it is the right thing to do and not simply to receive a reward from Jesus. I get all that. My argument, however, is that Jesus exists eternally and will at somee point meet these followers of His message who do it rather than ignore it and they WILL become transformed. They will drop the alcohol and the cigarettes. They will realize that Jesus is real. That He lives eternally. And that He is the Head and they are part of His body. They wont bypass this reality and set up squatters rights in Heaven doing their own thing. Satan got booted for doing that.

There you go again. What could possibly make you think Jesus would expect anyone to drop the alcohol when it was Jesus that made the better wine for the party, then he told his followers to take a drink in remembrance of him?Can you not see that all you market is the God and Jesus YOU created?

oh stop. You surely know that I am right. It is one thing to have wine at a wedding., The whole wedding metaphor is symbolic anyway. The argument that I am making with ringo is that transformation happens. You dont simply approach heaven keeping your old fleshly habits. Now...hypothetically you COULD make the argument that God does not care and will accept everybody. I wont limit Gods power through denying it. What I am saying, however, is that GOD is represented to us by His human character of Jesus Christ. And I believe that Jesus never got drunk. Never smoked cigarettes. Never allowed His flesh to dominate His Spirit. (you likely will bring up the temper tantrum in the Temple, but oh well )You claim that I (and the apologists) market a certain Jesus and that you, on the other hand, simply report what the book says. I would argue otherwise...especially if you dare make an argument that Jesus was an imperfect human while on earth. I do not believe that.

Actually, I believe very strongly that you are wrong. LOLBut Phat, that is exactly what is written in both the Bible and in the Nicene Creed. Sure, there are also claims made in the Bible that Jesus was perfect but those claims are never supported by reasoning or logic or evidence.Human wrote the Bible and it has contradictions, errors and fantasy.You are free to assert most anything but argument requires that you provide support for those assertions.

So why is there no evidence of a "changed life"? Why is it that prisons are full of believers? I'm not asking you to blather the same old same old bumper-sticker slogans. I'm asking you to THINK. Actually compose a sentence of your own for once. I haven't said that. YOU said that. YOU claim that Jesus never said it. YOU claim it isn't practical, even though the Roman church apparently did it. I didn't say anything about "communion" with God. That's a silly idea.I'm just pointing out what the gospel of John actually SAYS. But you never do argue. You just assert. Is that because there is no actual argument? He says that no man comes to the Father but by "the way".What is the way? He was explicit about that. "What must I do to be saved?" "Sell what you have and give to the poor." The Roman church apparently did that.He was also expliicit about how "all nations" will be judged - by what we do for the least of His brethern. You're making that up. Matthew 25 says nothing of the kind. They did the right thing BEFORE they ever even heard about Jesus - so Jesus CAN NOT have been a conduit for them. Again, Matthew 25 says nothing of the kind. It's all lies made up by apologists to fit their made-up scenario.

Figures. You really are a stick in the mud, are you not? You claim that my Christianity is apologetic, fantasy based, exclusive and dependent on signs and wonders to keep me interested. In some ways you are right. Had I never experienced the actual presence and power of God, I doubt I would ever care about these arguments nor of the need to convince anybody. To me, it would be a sad sobering day if what you guys said were true and that GOD were simply an abstract unproved possibility and that the charge remained defined by humans for humans with no promises of any reward in having fed, clothed, loved, encouraged and supported other humans with no supernatural Father figure ready to hand out rewards to me and my fellow believers for having run the race so well. A perfect and all powerful SOURCE is important to me. I honestly believe that I have met Him and that He speaks to me...though not audibly nor on a daily basis.I strongly believe that Jesus is the Head and that WE are the Body. You always assert this and it really bothers me. To even consider it as true in any way threatens my assurance that I unerringly believe. I will not doubt!!
I will question and consider other arguments for one reason and one reason only. And that is to understand how YOU think and how ringo thinks and why on earth you dont see things the way that I do. What scares me is that I feel that Even IF God was and is the way that I market Him, you would willfully reject Him anyway. You seem to not want nor need the type of help and support from Him that I want and need. You would throw Him away simply to run your own race and follow Jesus message simply for the self satisfaction of having done good. And that attitude scares me.
I believe very strongly that it is wrong and delusional and that you dont understand that there is in fact a spiritual realm. You mock us and laugh at us for attempting to push the belief that there is(a spiritual realm...a supernatural realm) and that humans are going to fail without Communion and that we will need Jesus. They are, but why should I even bother putting up this argument. You dont want the God that I market even if He were real. (and of course He is. He is alive) And I need Him. You apparently don't. Which is sad. How could you even want to believe that Jesus was imperfect? Jesus is Gods character. Yet you have presented a god whom humans invented and whom is learning on the job. Even if that were true, it is repulsive. But why should I even bother? It seems that you guys dont want to believe it anyway. It frustrates me to no end that you would support a God Who allows people to remain unchanged and allowed to keep their own personality and lifestyle choices. Heaven is not all inclusive. If it were, God and I would have some issues. I would dare scold Him for being so liberal and tolerant. Heck, may as well allow Satan Himself back in!Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

It is not just prisons that are full of believers. Believers are a minority yet they are everywhere. Pastor Isaiah believes that the American Church is weak and that it is full of lukewarm Christians who are comfortable with their lot in life....perhaps wanting only to help their heirs become great again and for America to take its spot as the Christian nation that leads the world. Thanks for your tough love! I never had problems with your argument except that you always say that the messenger is unimportant and that the message is all that is important. What good is atheistic socialism? If you throw God away and compare Jesus to an amalgamation of an Elmer Gantry type character, all you are doing is altruistic socialism. I wont put up with a world full of people who defiantly defend their right to be as they are--unchanged, untransformed, and proud of it. And i would have issues with God if He allowed them in the house as they are and commanded us to put up with their rebellious ways. Why is it silly? In retrospect, you and jar dont believe in original sin or that humans have a fallen nature...so I guess I see somewhat why you believe this nonsense. . Fine, lets keep discussing it. But dont get on my case for agreeing with the apologists. Why should I switch sides and agree with you? You claim that the messenger is unimportant and jar advocates throwing Him away! There is, but you will claim that I dont have an original thought and simply parrot the apologists. Lets examine this. Now to be fair, this passage lends support to both of our arguments. Nowhere does it suggest ignoring the messenger or throwing the Father(and the Son) away. You are right and yet you are not seeing what I see. Why are you guys so hard on the apologists? Why do accuse them of lying? Perhaps you dont understand that God cannot lie and that satan is the father of lies.

The topic is "When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?"Those folk who market the "End Times" gambit ran away and have not been heard from again.The post to which you are replying did make some pretty clear statements though and in fact you provided no argument other than the fact that you do not like for them to be true.But if you really need to hold onto your beliefs, then why do you place them on the table to be challenged?If you hope to persuade others that your beliefs should be adopted then you need to provide evidence and reasoning to support those beliefs.

You didn't answer the question. Why is there no evidence of the supposed "changed lives". And you never have any counter to that point. See above. Why are the people who think the messenger is important not better people than the ones who don't. Socialism is no more athesitic than science is.Socialism is good because we are a social species. We do better when we help each other. You're supposed to have learned that in kindergarten. What more is there? See above. You're NOT changed. You're NOT transformed. You NEED to change to become MORE socialist, not less. Your messenger-worship is a millstone that's holding you back. You've been told many times. Isn't it silly for you to have communion with a bacterium? I will get on your case. You're not even really agreeing with them. You're just parroting them. If you had put any thought into it, you'd be able to discuss their arguments but you never do. Because they're wrong. Yes. Why can't you make an argument against that position instead of just scoffing at it? If there is an argument, MAKE IT. So tell us what you see. Because they're lying. See Genesis 3. That's s lie that the apologists have told you. Unless you have an argument to back up what they say, you have no business believing them.

I'm probably late on this but this biblical nutter tells us that the Rapture will happen next year. World Bible Society President Says 'Rapture' Likely to Occur by 2021 - Christian NewswireHe's got 5 doctoral degrees in theology and has distributed 65m bibles. I've got no doctoral degrees and no bibles but I prophesies that he's wrong. And luckily it can be proved to be wrong.I'll be waiting attentively for his excuses.