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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 331 of 466 (877601)
06-19-2020 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Tangle
06-19-2020 5:24 AM


I read through the link with amusement, and right at the end comes the sting:

With a donation of $65 or more, 50 Jewish families will receive their personal copy of the Jewish Scriptures in the mail. To donate or learn more about the ministry, log onto [I’ve deleted the references, in an effort to protect the deluded]

I also notice that they use the words “likely to” and “estimate”, so that they can gouge some more money out of the rubes in the future, (a suitable period of time after the current prediction fails to materialise).


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 5:24 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 332 of 466 (877623)
06-19-2020 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Tangle
06-19-2020 5:24 AM


I'm too busy to grace the site with my own eyeballs but does he give any specifics? I've missed the last dozen or so raptures and I want to make sure to catch this one 'cuz I'm not getting any younger and haven't got all that much time left.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 5:24 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 11:29 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8168
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 333 of 466 (877627)
06-19-2020 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by AZPaul3
06-19-2020 11:15 AM


If you think I'm reading that drivel again, you're out of you mind...but we'll know in 18 months. I wonder if he'll take a bet?...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2020 11:15 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:48 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15442
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 334 of 466 (877647)
06-19-2020 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Tangle
06-19-2020 5:24 AM


Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
Oh snap. You mean this:
World Bible Society President Says 'Rapture' Likely to Occur by 2021 though I notice that the article was written in 2012.

quote:
Dr. F. Kenton Beshore became a Christian at age 5 and gave his first sermon at age 17 on the Second Coming. He was ordained at age 19 at Bellview Baptist Church in Memphis, Tenn., and pastored churches most of his life. Dr. David L. Cooper was Beshore's mentor for 10 years at the Biblical Research Society. Beshore began a daily radio ministry in 1954 -- the Bible Institute of the Air -- and today he is the president of the World Bible Society. Beshore -- along with his college roommate, Left Behind series co-author Tim LaHaye and Lindsey -- are considered the fathers of the modern Bible prophecy movement. Beshore has been married to his wife Lois for 65 years and they have three children, 11 grandchildren and five great-grandchildren.

For the record,, I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, came to earth to die for us if necessary (and it was) was raised from the dead and exists eternally as a testimony to the truth and purpose of God. Do I believe that the Bible is perfectly authentic and without error?
Well..I believe that Jesus is the living Word. I believe that some of the Bible is metaphorical but that this does not make it any less true. I believe that though humans authored the Bible, it was inspired to them by God through Jesus Christ.

Keep in mind that we all live in the same world. concepts such as Heaven, Living Christ, Spiritual Warfare, and Raptures are quite serious beliefs and DO require serious evidence. I was blessed to have gotten saved and met God. I was also blessed to have experienced the supernatural manifestations of spiritual warfare. Granted only once so far, though I witnessed more and am challenging myself through meeting Pastors who have encountered such activity more than I have. You might argue that I need to hang around people like you more often so as to balance my fevered brain, but I am following my heart and my intuitive belief. You guys would likely unconsciously try and kill my faith.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 5:24 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 1:52 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15442
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 335 of 466 (877648)
06-19-2020 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Tangle
06-19-2020 11:29 AM


Raptured
Tangle writes:

If you think I'm reading that drivel again, you're out of you mind...but we'll know in 18 months. I wonder if he'll take a bet?...

I know I wouldn't.

I am careeful when people set dates. God is quite capable of changing them. Your next questions should be these:

  • If God exists, why try and fool us?
  • If God exists and wants me(Tangle) to know, why not simply show me?

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 333 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 11:29 AM Tangle has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 337 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 2:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8168
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 3.5


    Message 336 of 466 (877649)
    06-19-2020 1:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 334 by Phat
    06-19-2020 1:44 PM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Phat writes:

    For the record,, I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, came to earth to die for us if necessary (and it was) was raised from the dead and exists eternally as a testimony to the truth and purpose of God. Do I believe that the Bible is perfectly authentic and without error?
    Well..I believe that Jesus is the living Word. I believe that some of the Bible is metaphorical but that this does not make it any less true. I believe that though humans authored the Bible, it was inspired to them by God through Jesus Christ.

    Who are you trying to convince? Me or you? And what has any of that blather got to do with anything I said?


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 334 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:44 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 338 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 2:02 PM Tangle has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8168
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 3.5


    (1)
    Message 337 of 466 (877650)
    06-19-2020 2:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 335 by Phat
    06-19-2020 1:48 PM


    Re: Raptured
    Phat writes:

    I am careeful when people set dates.

    So you should be; it's factual, the rubbish ideas can be shown to be rubbish. And always do.

    God is quite capable of changing them.

    That's priceless.

    Your next questions should be these:

    If God exists, why try and fool us?
    If God exists and wants me(Tangle) to know, why not simply show me?

    Well they'd be a couple of the less interesting ones. But as you're not going to answer them any better than you answer any of the rest are you? It's all I believe, I believe bullshit now and running back to wacky pastors for reinforcement.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 335 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15442
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 338 of 466 (877651)
    06-19-2020 2:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 336 by Tangle
    06-19-2020 1:52 PM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Who are you trying to convince? Me or you? And what has any of that blather got to do with anything I said?
    You mentioned taking a bet. Bets are based on chance. My belief does not incorporate chance into the equation at all.

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 336 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 1:52 PM Tangle has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 339 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 2:43 PM Phat has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8168
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 3.5


    Message 339 of 466 (877652)
    06-19-2020 2:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 338 by Phat
    06-19-2020 2:02 PM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Phat writes:

    You mentioned taking a bet. Bets are based on chance. My belief does not incorporate chance into the equation at all.

    It was yet another "I believe, I believe" sermon. Save it for your church


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 338 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 2:02 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 340 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:30 AM Tangle has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15442
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 340 of 466 (877694)
    06-20-2020 11:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 339 by Tangle
    06-19-2020 2:43 PM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Save it for your church
    I believe in freedom of speech. One can always change the channel, respond only to posts that they choose, or ignore the media. One of these days, the secular humanist ideologues will attempt to shut down preaching because they will claim it can cause harm to rationally minded thinking. As if they have any sort of monopoly on that!

    So now...what are we ever going to argue about, Tangle? Any ideas?


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 339 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2020 2:43 PM Tangle has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 342 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2020 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 343 by ringo, posted 06-20-2020 12:43 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15442
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 341 of 466 (877695)
    06-20-2020 11:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 331 by vimesey
    06-19-2020 5:32 AM


    Burden Of Proof 101
    thats a good observation. I know jar hates this bumper sticker, but I will repeat it just to annoy him:
    Not Perfect..Just Forgiven

    These Christian apologists shoot themselves in the foot by showing their motives. The question is whether making money or sharing the truth is their primary motivation.

    Scripture also tells us to Test The spirits.

    And you will find that it is wissee to test those whom agree with you as well as your opponents.
    One apologist has evolved their thinking and i'm proud of him for doing so.

    He maintains that the burden of proof is not simply on the one making the claim---the burden of proof is on both sides. (or should be)

    And I agree with that.

    You cant simply wait for evidence and logic to speak for themselves...they are but words. It is important for you to examine your worldview and test it as if you were opposed to it.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 331 by vimesey, posted 06-19-2020 5:32 AM vimesey has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 344 by ringo, posted 06-20-2020 12:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 345 by jar, posted 06-20-2020 1:07 PM Phat has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8168
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 3.5


    (1)
    Message 342 of 466 (877696)
    06-20-2020 11:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 340 by Phat
    06-20-2020 11:30 AM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Phat writes:

    I believe in freedom of speech. One can always change the channel, respond only to posts that they choose, or ignore the media. One of these days, the secular humanist ideologues will attempt to shut down preaching because they will claim it can cause harm to rationally minded thinking. As if they have any sort of monopoly on that!

    This is supposed to be debate, if all you're going to do is tell us over and over what you believe - like it matters what you believe or as if we didn't already know - it's not a debate it's a sermon.

    So now...what are we ever going to argue about, Tangle? Any ideas?

    No, none. It's hopeless, you're not interested in rational discussion - you can't do it. You've had what you think is a personal revelation from god so nothing else matters, not even what the bible actual says. This is just pointless.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 340 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:30 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19125
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 343 of 466 (877700)
    06-20-2020 12:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 340 by Phat
    06-20-2020 11:30 AM


    Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
    Phat writes:

    I believe in freedom of speech.


    This is a privately-owned website. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here.

    Phat writes:

    One of these days, the secular humanist ideologues...


    I'm not an ideologue, nor do I know of anybody who is a "secular humanist ideologue". Ideologies are for lazy thinkers.

    On the other hand, many believers are ideologues.

    Phat writes:

    ... will attempt to shut down preaching ...


    The rules of the site prohibit preaching. I, for one, wish you would answer your posts thoughtfully instead of just parroting your ideology.

    Phat writes:

    ... because they will claim it can cause harm to rationally minded thinking.


    I don't know of anybody who thinks that. Rational thinking can only be harmed if you teach children to think ideologically instead of rationally.

    Phat writes:

    As if they have any sort of monopoly on that!


    Feel free to demonstrate some rational thinking.

    "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 340 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:30 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19125
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 344 of 466 (877701)
    06-20-2020 12:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 341 by Phat
    06-20-2020 11:39 AM


    Re: Burden Of Proof 101
    Phat writes:

    It is important for you to examine your worldview and test it as if you were opposed to it.


    So why don't you do that?

    "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 341 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33343
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 345 of 466 (877703)
    06-20-2020 1:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 341 by Phat
    06-20-2020 11:39 AM


    Re: Burden Of Proof 101
    Phat writes:

    To me, it would be a sad sobering day if what you guys said were true and that GOD were simply an abstract unproved possibility and that the charge remained defined by humans for humans with no promises of any reward in having fed, clothed, loved, encouraged and supported other humans with no supernatural Father figure ready to hand out rewards to me and my fellow believers for having run the race so well.
    To even consider it as true in any way threatens my assurance that I unerringly believe. I will not doubt!!

    They are, but why should I even bother putting up this argument. You dont want the God that I market even if He were real. (and of course He is. He is alive) And I need Him.

    It frustrates me to no end that you would support a God Who allows people to remain unchanged and allowed to keep their own personality and lifestyle choices. Heaven is not all inclusive. If it were, God and I would have some issues. I would dare scold Him for being so liberal and tolerant. Heck, may as well allow Satan Himself back in!

    It is important for you to examine your worldview and test it as if you were opposed to it.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 341 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:39 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 346 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 3:27 PM jar has responded

      
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