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Author Topic:   How similar are phylogenetic trees?
Jerry Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 06-20-2020


Message 1 of 27 (877684)
06-20-2020 6:32 AM


Hi all,
I read that phylogenetic trees are one of the strongest evidence of evolution, because we get a very similar trees for different genes and proteins. But I can't find anywhere ANY concrete/specific numbers. How many phylogenetic trees where constructed so far? 1000? 50,000? a million? How similar are they to one another? 99%? 95%? 80%?
I would really like to see some numbers, where can I find them?
I'm asking this because I came across a video claiming that phylogenetic trees do NOT support evolution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk1gDk1wGhQ&t=5m52s
So, if you have some numbers it will really help.
Thanks.
(I wanted to ask this in the "Biological Evolution" forum but I got a message telling me that I can post only here)
Edited by Jerry Johnson, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2020 10:23 AM Jerry Johnson has replied
 Message 4 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2020 10:42 AM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 14 by Kleinman, posted 06-21-2020 8:42 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 06-22-2020 5:29 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 19 by Jerry Johnson, posted 06-22-2020 5:37 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied

  
Jerry Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 06-20-2020


Message 5 of 27 (877711)
06-20-2020 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
06-20-2020 10:23 AM


Hi AZPaul3,
I'm from the north and I'm very interested in evolution.
Your answer really confused me. Yes I understand what phylogenetic trees are, but if you can't compare between different trees and you can't say in how much percents they differ from one another, then how can you (I mean the science) say that they are strong evidence of evolution?
If each scientist can come up with another tree for the same animals, and you cannot compare this trees then what's the point? One will put bears on the same branch together with cats and dogs, and another researcher will put bears on the same branch with Giraffes and tigers.
So what's the point? How is it an evidence of evolution?
Edited by Jerry Johnson, : No reason given.
Edited by Jerry Johnson, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2020 10:23 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 06-20-2020 4:41 PM Jerry Johnson has replied
 Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-20-2020 5:43 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied

  
Jerry Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 06-20-2020


Message 7 of 27 (877715)
06-20-2020 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
06-20-2020 4:41 PM


jar,
Maybe it wan't the best example, but still I'm talking about a situation where different scientists constructing a phylogenetic tree for the same animals, and each one of them came up with another tree.
If you can't compare these trees then how can you conclude something about them or about their accuracy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 06-20-2020 4:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 06-20-2020 5:11 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 12 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2020 6:33 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied

  
Jerry Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 06-20-2020


Message 19 of 27 (877868)
06-22-2020 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jerry Johnson
06-20-2020 6:32 AM


Thanks for your answers, but still, I expect that if you'll take several represent animals (monkeys, humans, dogs, cats, zebras, horses, birds, bats, squirrels, fish, whales, dolphins ...) and you'll build several phylogenetic trees for them based on several different genes and proteins, then you should get very similar trees. If not, then you can't say that phylogenetic trees are evidence of evolution.
So my question is still relevant, how close are the different trees to one another?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jerry Johnson, posted 06-20-2020 6:32 AM Jerry Johnson has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2020 6:35 PM Jerry Johnson has replied
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 06-23-2020 12:22 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied

  
Jerry Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 06-20-2020


Message 22 of 27 (877901)
06-23-2020 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
06-22-2020 6:35 PM


AZPaul3: "Not only should they be very similar they *must* be very similar".
OK, so where can I see this? Where can I find a research that compared several phylogenetic trees (based on different genes and proteins) and showed how much they resemble each other?
(BTW: How can I add a quote to my post? I can't find this option anywhere)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2020 6:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by JonF, posted 06-23-2020 8:59 AM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2020 9:30 AM Jerry Johnson has not replied
 Message 27 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2020 12:47 PM Jerry Johnson has not replied

  
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