When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

I dont yet see why.

Read it again. Slowly. Pay attention to what is actually written.

Well it certainly seems saner than thinking I was talking to a visible being. My personal opinion is that statues, icons, shrouds, and priests get in the way of such a communion. And I dont really sense an "invisible being" so much as I sense an omnipresent Being. Of course I know that there is no evidence of anyone in my apartment...nor any more so when I kneel at an altar or reflect quietly on a ledge in the crisp morning air of the mountains...or sit by the sea. Invisible is fine with me...I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.

It couldn't be any other way could it? If it was visible you wouldn't be delusional, you would be having a normal conversation with a real person.As it is you're no different than children with imaginary friends and adults inmates I've visited in mental hospitals that talk to ghosts and ancestors. Every one of them believe the invisible person to be real. Absolutely real.

What if it was not visible yet was distinctly tangible? How do we test for that?The problem here is that you use a static method of determining reality...which is of course evidence of absence. What you have done, however, is to conclude that since A does not exist and since the patient proclaims the existence of A, the patient *must* be delusional. Granted this may be true in 99 out of 100 models, but it is not proof that there is no such thing as A.Science can not rule out the possibility that God exists nor can science even test for the existence of God using their own biased minds to do so.
AddByEdit: Now I will allow that science can make the test as unbiased as possible, but I feel that if we had an equal number of believing scientists as we did atheist or unbelieving scientists, our conclusions may be interpreted differently depending on which group was reporting.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

OK lets look at this from Poppers theory of falsification and the opposite tendency towards confirmation bias. My usual belief would be to say that God is omnipresent and thus we are gathered together to sing to Him and to shout for joy to Him and for him. Falsification may tell me that there is no evidence that God is actually present but that the point is for the people to celebrate belief in His reality in Communion (and song) with each other. I would usually emphasize His presence. Falsification would likely emphasize the word us and would support your belief that Christianity is about what *we* do and not about what we expect *Him* to do. I would say that He is so huge...so absolutely BIG and that we need to get in one accord and worship Him. Falsification may suggest that this is a metaphor for reality and that though we humans may collectively believe that God is reality, the evidence would again suggest that it is *we* who need to do the work. After all, we are His body and if we do the work it allows Him to do the work. I hope that by slowing down and rereading the poem with a deeper reverence and perspective, I did hear His voice. Thanks for guiding me to see this another way than my usual knee-jerk beliefs.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Touch it. Correct. That's the definition of delusional. Yes it is. A is invisible and unheard (and untouched) by all other observers. As the subject is a standard human with no more sensory apparatus than anyone else, A does not exist There's nothing special about not being able to rule out your particular god. Science can't rule out anything that is invisible and undetectable - including all the usual examples of mythical being from elves to hobgoblins. Your god is just another one of thousands. Uh? Science is the most unbiased human activity we know. ffs Phat, atheists are about 10% of the population, granted that the % will be higher in science - and most activities that require a better than average brain (and yes, that is a fact, not a slur) but in a christian country like America it's scientists will be predominantly christian.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

You are still showing that you are not honestly reading what is written.Try again.

Better look up what tangible means. Might as well look up inaudible, tasteless and odorless while you're at it. All of the senses can be tested.

OK I read it again. About all I can add is that *we* are the sheep of His hand. In other words, symbolically we are His hand.If I am missing anything else, it may be revealed to me eventually, were I to make such a prayer a daily practice. And though I see the metaphor, I give His mind the kudos for directing "His" Hand. Perhaps the idea is that we *all* are his people, I dunno.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Try reading it again.

why though? Honestly I have read it several times. Its not that long.

No Phat, you have skimmed it selecting only the pieces parts that make you happy.

Evidently this prayer is more akin to the God you market than it is to the God I market. (Reading it again)... OK I found this. I believe that His presence is not confined to a symbolic table of bread and wine. I believe that God is *with* everyone on the planet and *In* those who have asked Him to commune with them. Communion is symbolic to be sure, but it is also very tangible and actual for a believer.
(continues reading) This reminds me of your GOD, God, and god expression. I would disagree with the precise wording, saying that the Lord(aka Jesus) is a great GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen. Supported through scripture as being with God in the beginning. I could care less what other religions say and think that GOD is---for to me, they worship gods unless they too have been made aware of the real One. (sorry, im being honest....I believe in exclusivity when it comes to God. This will eventually cause friction between the global inclusiveness and the Christian exclusiveness...down the road)Also keep in mind that my thoughts on the prayer and what it must mean for the Episcopal Church vs what it means to me may differ from day to day. I believe but cannot KNOW that my idea of GOD is the real One or not...though I suspect that the podcasts that I listen to contain a revealed truth and anointing that your garden variety critical thinker who attends Episcopal Church simply does not have (largely because they have already consciously rejected exclusivity)
(continues reading) If by that they honestly acknowledge that the God of that congregation is unique only to them and that the Club they are in is not the only club there is or the one that is the best, they will be patted on the back for being politically correct and empathetic to other beliefs. As for me and my group? We believe that if we fast and pray, GOD will reveal Himself to us and the rest of the people on this rock better either catch up or suffer the consequences. Granted just saying this stuff and being honest shows me my blatant exclusivity. But whats so wrong with exclusivity? This whole live and let live kum-ba-yah thing where everyone has a right to be different clashes with End Times Charismatic Christian Exclusivity.There I said it. Guilty as charged. Please pray for me that I may become better enlightened.

Finally.Now the next step is to take what you learned about reading and comprehension and try to apply it to EVERY bit of content EVERYWHERE.AbE:Phat, you are always claiming that what I call Christianity is some unique cult limited only to a membership of one; however the Venite is from Psalm 95 (or Psalm 94 if reading from the Vulgate) and is attributed to David although of course actual authorship is unknown. Parts of Psalm 95 are also quote in Hebrews.These are basics Phat. They are not some new creation but rather foundational to Judaism, Islam and Christianity.Edited by jar, : see AbE:Edited by jar, : the ---> to