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Author Topic:   Evidence For Belief
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 17 of 103 (846204)
12-31-2018 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by GDR
12-31-2018 3:10 AM


Re: Subjectively understanding objective evidence.
GDR writes:
We are still left with the objective knowledge that the NT accounts exist and claim that Jesus was resurrected.
We are also left with the objective knowledge that Alice in Wonderland exists and its claim that the Cheshire Cat just fades away leaving only his smile behind.
Fiction is fiction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by GDR, posted 12-31-2018 3:10 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 12-31-2018 3:19 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 27 of 103 (846228)
12-31-2018 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by GDR
12-31-2018 3:19 PM


Re: Subjectively understanding objective evidence.
AZPaul3 writes:
We are also left with the objective knowledge that Alice in Wonderland exists and its claim that the Cheshire Cat just fades away leaving only his smile behind.
Fiction is fiction.
GDR writes:
That's pretty silly. Obviously A i W was written to be read as fiction. It is just as obvious that the NT wasn't.
Wasn't it? Since the majority of the authors cannot even be identified how can you accurately assess their motivations?
Just before the Branch Davidians burned in Waco David Koresh got some air time on a local radio show as part of a surrender deal with the Feds. He had his air time but then reneged on the surrender.
I heard the broadcast as it happened. The guy was nuts. I'm sure a transcript exists somewhere if you want but the point is that this religious yahoo was so obviously off his feed. I could totally see him 2000 years ago writing scrolls with the help of Jim Jones.
The religious nutjobs of yester-millennia were the archetypes for the modern ones and possessed the same fervor and deluded vision as the ones they spawned.
I refuse to believe (well, anything, actually) that someone could write this stuff, then or now, as anything other than fiction (allegory?) except under extreme religious delusion.
We have them today and humans haven't progressed all that far in intellect from before so I conclude the same type of religious crazy existed back then, and, lacking our religious history, their writings had no impediment to acceptance by the religion-based societies of the era.
So, ya, I submit your books were written as fiction, allegory or delusion, and most certainly not as objective reporting.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by GDR, posted 12-31-2018 3:19 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by GDR, posted 01-01-2019 2:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 36 of 103 (846259)
01-01-2019 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by GDR
01-01-2019 2:24 PM


Re: Subjectively understanding objective evidence.
AZPaul3 writes:
I submit your books were written as fiction, allegory or delusion, and most certainly not as objective reporting.
GDR writes:
Fiction is quite differnt than allegory or delusion.
Oops. I need a proof reader. Left out a comma. It's supposed to be a take your pick: fiction, allegory, or delusion.
An allegory, like a Biblical parable, is a story that is truthful but not in a historical sense but that it represents a literal truth.
I challenge your view of allegory. Allegory often is just as abstract and figurative as fiction. The difference is that a fiction owns up to being fiction while an allegory often tries to hide it.
Whether written after being repeatedly embellished after decades of ponder intended to build on the myth, or, written as a figurative treatment/symbolical narrative intended to build on the myth, or, written by some religio-nutcase gone wacko wanting to show his own importance in the myth. These seem to be the most reasonable choices available.
The Gospels, as pointed out specifically by both Luke and John, were written to be accepted as truthful. That of course isn't evidence that they are historically accurate, but it is evidence that they were not written as fiction, but were written to convey an account of events, that were intended to be understood as historically accurate.
Ok, so, religio-nutcase gone wacko it is then.

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 Message 30 by GDR, posted 01-01-2019 2:24 PM GDR has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 42 of 103 (846281)
01-02-2019 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
01-02-2019 2:46 PM


Re: Subjectively understanding objective evidence.
Phat writes:
The Bible was written to chronicle a very important truth in the lives of the people of that day and time.
ringo writes:
So was The Lord of the Rings.
Ok, it's one of those moments for me, ringo. I missed something. Would you elaborate on that, please?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 01-02-2019 2:46 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 01-02-2019 3:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 46 of 103 (846291)
01-02-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
01-02-2019 3:46 PM


Re: Subjectively understanding objective evidence.
It seemed fairly straightforward to me. How does the Bible differ from The Lord of the Rings?
Well, they both have orcs and dragons, wizards and ghosts. But the names are different. That's probably not what you were talking about
... was it?

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 61 of 103 (877961)
06-23-2020 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Trump won
06-23-2020 2:53 PM


That's right. We want real evidence, not the charlatans' fabrications.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

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 Message 59 by Trump won, posted 06-23-2020 2:53 PM Trump won has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 64 of 103 (877976)
06-24-2020 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Trump won
06-24-2020 6:39 AM


Yes, Dear. Of course it is.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Trump won, posted 06-24-2020 6:39 AM Trump won has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 98 of 103 (878722)
07-03-2020 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by vimesey
07-03-2020 5:24 AM


Dynamo walking on water HQ
But his shoes, socks and cuffs of his pants got all drenched. That is real sloppy god-work in my book. Second rate at best. Must be christian. Top-of-the-line god wouldn't even be damp. Osiris wouldn't have had a drop on him.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by vimesey, posted 07-03-2020 5:24 AM vimesey has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 101 of 103 (878840)
07-05-2020 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Tangle
07-03-2020 4:02 PM


What's the difference between Tangle, AzPaul3, and ringo.
I'm the one who's late to the party.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2020 4:02 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
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