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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 330 of 794 (877600)
06-19-2020 5:24 AM


I'm probably late on this but this biblical nutter tells us that the Rapture will happen next year.
Based on a lifetime study of Biblical hermeneutics, World Bible Society President. Dr. F. Kenton Beshore says the "Rapture" is likely to occur between now and 2021 and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ from 2018 and 2028.
World Bible Society President Says 'Rapture' Likely to Occur by 2021 - Christian Newswire
He's got 5 doctoral degrees in theology and has distributed 65m bibles. I've got no doctoral degrees and no bibles but I prophesies that he's wrong. And luckily it can be proved to be wrong.
I'll be waiting attentively for his excuses.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by vimesey, posted 06-19-2020 5:32 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 332 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2020 11:15 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 334 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:44 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 333 of 794 (877627)
06-19-2020 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by AZPaul3
06-19-2020 11:15 AM


If you think I'm reading that drivel again, you're out of you mind...but we'll know in 18 months. I wonder if he'll take a bet?...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2020 11:15 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:48 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 336 of 794 (877649)
06-19-2020 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Phat
06-19-2020 1:44 PM


Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
Phat writes:
For the record,, I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, came to earth to die for us if necessary (and it was) was raised from the dead and exists eternally as a testimony to the truth and purpose of God. Do I believe that the Bible is perfectly authentic and without error?
Well..I believe that Jesus is the living Word. I believe that some of the Bible is metaphorical but that this does not make it any less true. I believe that though humans authored the Bible, it was inspired to them by God through Jesus Christ.
Who are you trying to convince? Me or you? And what has any of that blather got to do with anything I said?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 2:02 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 337 of 794 (877650)
06-19-2020 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Phat
06-19-2020 1:48 PM


Re: Raptured
Phat writes:
I am careeful when people set dates.
So you should be; it's factual, the rubbish ideas can be shown to be rubbish. And always do.
God is quite capable of changing them.
That's priceless.
Your next questions should be these:
If God exists, why try and fool us?
If God exists and wants me(Tangle) to know, why not simply show me?
Well they'd be a couple of the less interesting ones. But as you're not going to answer them any better than you answer any of the rest are you? It's all I believe, I believe bullshit now and running back to wacky pastors for reinforcement.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 1:48 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 339 of 794 (877652)
06-19-2020 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Phat
06-19-2020 2:02 PM


Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
Phat writes:
You mentioned taking a bet. Bets are based on chance. My belief does not incorporate chance into the equation at all.
It was yet another "I believe, I believe" sermon. Save it for your church

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 2:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:30 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 342 of 794 (877696)
06-20-2020 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by Phat
06-20-2020 11:30 AM


Re: Future Proof Is At Best Speculative
Phat writes:
I believe in freedom of speech. One can always change the channel, respond only to posts that they choose, or ignore the media. One of these days, the secular humanist ideologues will attempt to shut down preaching because they will claim it can cause harm to rationally minded thinking. As if they have any sort of monopoly on that!
This is supposed to be debate, if all you're going to do is tell us over and over what you believe - like it matters what you believe or as if we didn't already know - it's not a debate it's a sermon.
So now...what are we ever going to argue about, Tangle? Any ideas?
No, none. It's hopeless, you're not interested in rational discussion - you can't do it. You've had what you think is a personal revelation from god so nothing else matters, not even what the bible actual says. This is just pointless.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 11:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 353 of 794 (877754)
06-21-2020 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by Phat
06-21-2020 1:12 PM


Re: Burden Of Proof 101
Phat writes:
You guys just don't understand how personal and close God is to me [....] Does that make any sense to you from your perspective and if not why not?
Of course we understand; it's a delusion, they're very powerful things. If you talked that way about anything else other than religion you'd be seeing a doctor. Religious delusions get a free pass in our society.
Some of us have felt the same and managed to snap out of it. Some - like you - really want the delusion so it continues.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Phat, posted 06-21-2020 1:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Phat, posted 06-21-2020 2:26 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 359 of 794 (877776)
06-21-2020 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by Phat
06-21-2020 2:26 PM


Re: Burden Of Proof 101
Phat writes:
But how can you say with 100% certainty that it is a delusion?
Because you think you're talking to an invisible being. That pretty much does it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Phat, posted 06-21-2020 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 06-22-2020 9:26 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 364 of 794 (877820)
06-22-2020 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Phat
06-22-2020 9:26 AM


Re: Burden Of Proof 101
Phat writes:
Invisible is fine with me...I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.
It couldn't be any other way could it? If it was visible you wouldn't be delusional, you would be having a normal conversation with a real person.
As it is you're no different than children with imaginary friends and adults inmates I've visited in mental hospitals that talk to ghosts and ancestors. Every one of them believe the invisible person to be real. Absolutely real.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 06-22-2020 9:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 06-23-2020 11:32 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 367 of 794 (877917)
06-23-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
06-23-2020 11:32 AM


Re: Burden Of Proof 101
Phat writes:
What if it was not visible yet was distinctly tangible? How do we test for that?
Touch it.
The problem here is that you use a static method of determining reality...which is of course evidence of absence. What you have done, however, is to conclude that since A does not exist and since the patient proclaims the existence of A, the patient *must* be delusional.
Correct. That's the definition of delusional.
Granted this may be true in 99 out of 100 models, but it is not proof that there is no such thing as A.
Yes it is. A is invisible and unheard (and untouched) by all other observers. As the subject is a standard human with no more sensory apparatus than anyone else, A does not exist
Science can not rule out the possibility that God exists
There's nothing special about not being able to rule out your particular god. Science can't rule out anything that is invisible and undetectable - including all the usual examples of mythical being from elves to hobgoblins. Your god is just another one of thousands.
nor can science even test for the existence of God using their own biased minds to do so.
Uh? Science is the most unbiased human activity we know.
AddByEdit: Now I will allow that science can make the test as unbiased as possible, but I feel that if we had an equal number of believing scientists as we did atheist or unbelieving scientists, our conclusions may be interpreted differently depending on which group was reporting.
ffs Phat, atheists are about 10% of the population, granted that the % will be higher in science - and most activities that require a better than average brain (and yes, that is a fact, not a slur) but in a christian country like America it's scientists will be predominantly christian.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 06-23-2020 11:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 376 of 794 (878079)
06-25-2020 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Phat
06-25-2020 8:22 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
This whole live and let live kum-ba-yah thing where everyone has a right to be different clashes with End Times Charismatic Christian Exclusivity.
Which should give you a clue that it's total shite shouldn't it? Totally against everything you believe Jesus to be.
That exclusivity condemns ever human that lived before the mythical resurrection to hell and the billions of others since that, by an accident of birth, have been taught to believe something else - or nothing. It's hideously evil. Fanatically evil; how can you reconcile that policy with god the loving father? How?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 8:22 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 2:36 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 386 of 794 (878091)
06-25-2020 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
06-25-2020 2:50 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Nonsense. God does not condemn anyone. They condemn themselves by choosing the wrong spirit to follow.
How could anyone choose the Christian god before Christianity was invented? How can anybody not born in a Christian country to Christian parents choose Christianity? Explain.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:50 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 397 of 794 (878140)
06-26-2020 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Phat
06-26-2020 12:26 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Does evil exist? Has it always existed? Where did it originate from?
God, creator of all seen and unseen. Apparently.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 12:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 5:38 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 400 of 794 (878143)
06-26-2020 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by Phat
06-26-2020 5:38 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
but the issue is whether or not God created evil or merely the possibility of evil which was then actualized by an independent agent.
If god created what you guys call 'the seen and unseen', he also created this hypothetical independent agent. And creating the possibility of evil is the same as creating evil.
btw, this is called making shit up.
KJB Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 5:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 11:22 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 408 of 794 (878160)
06-26-2020 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by Phat
06-26-2020 11:22 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
I disagree. Creating the possibility of evil was only done so that Angelic Beings would not be zombies.
I wish you could read the stuff you write through my eyes - this is pure Lord of the Rings fantasy stuff. It's childish and embarrassing.
It's also not internally logical - heaven is populated with such 'zombies'. You are desperate to be just such a 'zombie'. Happy ever after at the right hand of your Lord, all sweetness and light, not an evil or selfish thought crossing your mind.
Perhaps it was foreknown that Lucifer and 1/3 of these beings would choose rebellion but that foreknowledge is in and of itself not evil.
If it was foreknown and done anyway, of course it's evil. Even our human systems allow for recklessness as a crime even without full intent. If you know there's a high likelihood of causing harm but are reckless to that risk, you commit the crime.
It was necessary for the term freewill to even have any meaning.
Freewill has no meaning at all, it doesn't bloody exist! I am absolutely incapable of strangling a baby and so are you. I have a sense of morality that prevents it. For freewill to be even contemplated as a real thing, we'd all have to be medically psychopathic.
I already addressed this argument back in Message 394. Look at the original Hebrew.
More semantics and apologetics. More 'interpretation' of inconvenient ideas. There's no end to it is there? Hand-wave away all the problems because you have the revealed truth. It's bonkers Phat; delusion.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Phat, posted 06-26-2020 11:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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