When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

But that would be false.And it isn't rude to call an idea stupid. The god you market is so obviously made up, you spit on the Bible, you worship apologists without a moment of thought about what they're saying.... AND you're afraid to defend anything you say. "Stupid" is one of the politest things I can think of to say about your theology.

Stop and think. We all know that I believe (though cannot prove) that Jesus existed eternally as Gods character and thus metaphorically with the Father whereas the contrarian position is that these characters are limited to the book itself. Which to me is a rather weak belief, but you guys do love physical evidence! You've just never experienced a spiritual epiphany and mock those who claim to have.
For the sake of argument, lets say that any description of God that I make up is no different from any that you make up. Whether or not either of our Gods is real (and thus transcendent beyond the little black book) remains to be seen. Oh and by the way...for the record, no. I could never prove nor provide evidence for a spiritual epiphany. Which is irrelevant in this context. You've painted God into a corner. You claim that He cannot be all-knowing if at some point in the future humans may end up in hell and He knew about it. Which is in my opinion a loaded argument. ringo will claim that God dug a hole in the yard as an attractive nuisance and that some kids fell in. Thus God is liable. I would argue that the only way that humans could ever truly have free will is through being offered a choice between Gods authority and the lie of autonomy provided by the sneaky snake. Whom you also likely would defend. You really should consider working for the A.C.L.U. Might I ask what attributes you would assign to God in order for Him not to be evil? Whats that you say? Allowing everybody into heaven regardless of their transformation? I figured as much. That inclusive belief is pathetic and a lie from satan.

Well, again you are just showing that you cannot or will not read what is written.Go back and read what I wrote and you quoted and the read how you totally misrepresented what I had posted.Also it's not I that paint that God into a corner, it is YOU who created the God that created all that is, seen and unseen and is omniscient but also condemns some of his creation to hell.Your God, your creation, your corner!NMP! It's your God Phat, the one you've created and market. Not my problem. It's you that wants to worship and market evil.

You error in logic. God does not condemn some of His creation to hell. The creation itself chooses which path to take. NGP. Not Gods Problem. And again you dodge the question. The bible itself says in Isaiah 45:7 that God creates evil as well as good, but there is an apologetic explanation. You tell me if it sounds plausible or not:

quote:

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There are two different words for evil used in the pages of the Old Testament. First, there is evil in the sense of calamity, disaster, misfortune, or hardship — in other words, those aspects of existence in this world that we consider bad because they hurt us or inconvenience us in some way. The Hebrew word for this type of evil is ra’ah. It should be sharply distinguished from the second word for evil, rasha’ — wickedness or evil in the moral sense.

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When the Lord says (in the King James Version), I make peace, and create evil, the Hebrew word employed is ra’ah. The New King James Version makes this explicit with the translation, I make peace and create calamity. The same word is used in Lamentations 3:38 (KJV), where the prophet Jeremiah declares that both evil and good proceed out of the mouth of the host High.

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By way of contrast, the Bible never attributes the creation of rasha’ or moral wickedness to God. On the contrary, it tells us over and over again that He alone is good (Mark 10:18). It says that all the works of His hands are verity and justice (Psalm 111:7). He is light, says the apostle John, and in Him is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5). If He creates ra’ah, or calamity, it is always for a good and righteous purpose within the all-embracing scheme of His eternal and sovereign plan. For example, He sometimes uses affliction to compel people to seek His face (Hosea 5:15). Similarly, He works all things, including trials and troubles, together for good to those who love [Him] (Romans 8:28, NKJV). God may have any number of reasons for weaving ra’ah, or hardships and difficulties, into the fabric of human experience. But He is not and cannot be the author of rasha’.

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I dont know why you get so upset at apologists for "making up" answers to scriptural questions. After all, if the books were edited, compiled, and redacted by humans, what difference does it make if a human apologist suggests a deeper meaning for a particular scripture than something YOU would conclude?

Phat, you simply refuse to listen. It is a willful behavior that has been an obvious trait for almost two decades.The Evil was in creating.There is no way around it Phat.You simply worships a true shit piece of a god.Edited by jar, : fix quote box

Lets discuss this concept a bit deeper, shall we?First a yes/no question. Does evil exist? Has it always existed? Where did it originate from?

God, creator of all seen and unseen. Apparently.

Well apparently everything did....but the issue is whether or not God created evil or merely the possibility of evil which was then actualized by an independent agent.

Another utterly silly question Phat.Evil is a human creation, an evolved social skill.It is also totally irrelevant to the discussion and just another attempt by you to avoid dealing with the issue.There are several parts to the issue.Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?Is God omniscient?Is anyone or anything sent to hell?If all of those are true then that God is just a piece of shit.To keep that God from being a piece of shit at least one of those parts must be false.

If god created what you guys call 'the seen and unseen', he also created this hypothetical independent agent. And creating the possibility of evil is the same as creating evil.btw, this is called making shit up.KJB Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Stop lying. I have told you many times that I have experienced what you have. 1. Why is "free will" so all-fired important to you?2. How the hell is bowing to authority "free will"? The snake told the truth.You can not escape that by throwing out the book. If you believe in the snake, you have to accept what the book says about him. How many times do I have to point out that there is no transformation? You're preaching an ugly, disgusting, evil, exclusive lie. You should be ashamed of connecting your lies to Jesus.

And I suppose you claim that God is also a human construct. Quite frankly your "God" is an abstract creation of the human mind. She may well not be a piece of shit God, but she is no more real than Lady Liberty, Lady Wisdom or the Statue Of Liberty. And your ego-centric rational thinking will be dealt with by the "living Christ in His timing and by and through His methods. Feel free to oppose Him, but you will learn. We are talking about God here. Not *my* God and not the "God apologists market." You all can call me crazy, delusional, fantasy-based or even arrogant, white privileged, exclusive, or phatshit crazy.Now let me review the posts and see who is next.

I disagree. Creating the possibility of evil was only done so that Angelic Beings would not be zombies. Perhaps it was foreknown that Lucifer and 1/3 of these beings would choose rebellion but that foreknowledge is in and of itself not evil. It was necessary for the term freewill to even have any meaning. Call it what you will. What difference does it make if I unapologetic-ally "make stuff up" now or whether the authors of the original texts "made stuff up" then? I already addressed this argument back in Message 394. Look at the original Hebrew.

And once again you simply crawl away and NEVER address the points that were made.You have NEVER provided argument or reasoning to support what you and the Apologists market. But Phat it is exactly *your* God and "God apologists market" that we are discussing. You even quoted the attributes that you claim exist for *your* God and "God apologists market".What YOU fail to consider is the reality of what your claim shows.There are several parts to the issue.Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?Is God omniscient?Is anyone or anything sent to hell?

Which may or may not be true. You cant simply take two believers and claim that they both experienced the same things. The only way that you might argue your point is to claim that you were sold a bill of goods and culturally brainwashed while a believer and that you later "saw the light" of rationality, evidence-based thinking and reason and became truly Born Again and now are representing Logic, Reason, Reality and evidence based thinking. Which I clearly see. You are a worthy contrarian. I never said it was. It was crucial to Lucifer even being allowed to rebel and break away from Gods authority (to a limited degree for a season) It is surrendering to the fact that God is good. Not "complete" as the corrupted teachings from the East taught. Not Yin and Yang.1)God is sovereign. God is good. Bow willfully now or forcefully later.2) Jesus Christ is ultimate truth, ultimate love and ultimate wisdom. He is worthy to be praised. In Him is life.3) Humans never needed religion. Religion was created by us for manipulation and control of other humans and to push our own agendas.4) Even though God is sovereign, He has given you full right to question, deny, laugh at and redefine who He is. All that your free will wont do is allow you to escape what you claim is ignorance and create a brave new secular world which itself will succeed. Because sadly it won't. I do not believe in the snake. Never have and never will. Romans 12:1 clearly says that there is. Are you also now throwing out the book? Jesus is not a human socialist.