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Author Topic:   Police Shootings
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 511 of 524 (877258)
06-09-2020 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Percy
06-09-2020 11:52 AM


Re: Marquez Shooting Deliberation
This is false. It's a video. You can queue it up to the exact point in time where you think there is an officer on the staircase that she is aiming at. Go ahead and try to find that point in the video, then post it here queued up properly. You can find instructions on how to do that here: No YouTube URL Provided dBCode Help

You already queued it up for me... It wouldn't matter with you anyhow. You think cops are supposed to magically be able to have x-ray vision and know within a split second whether a gun is real or supposed to look real. You've also said elsewhere that cops shouldn't shoot unless they're being fired upon, which is an absurdity.

I don't know what it is with people seeing things in videos that simply aren't there.

Look in the mirror when you say that. Even people that hate guns had said, concerning the London Bridge incident, that if there were ever a justified shooting that that would be it.

I'm going to let the rest of your post stand as a testament to the attitudes that make interaction with modern law enforcement so dangerous.

Meaning?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Percy, posted 06-09-2020 11:52 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Percy, posted 06-23-2020 8:43 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 512 of 524 (877261)
06-09-2020 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 509 by Percy
06-09-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Protests
You're still backing the "bad apples" theory. George Floyd's death was a result of systemic racism, not bad apples. This is not a problem of bad apples. It is a problem of a bad system.

The only sure evidence we have here is that Chauvin is a piece of shit who needs to be buried underneath the jail. I'm curious as to why you think it was racially motivated. I'm not saying it wasn't but what evidence is there to suggest that there was?

A few years back the murder of Kelly Thomas occurred at the hands of sadistic cops. He was beaten so severely that he was basically unrecognizable. Kelly Thomas was white. My point is that when a black officer kills a black man there's not much media fanfare. When a white cop kills a white man there's not much media fanfare. When anybody kills a cop there's not a lot of fanfare. When a white cop kills a black man, there's always huge media coverage. And the implication is always that it was racially motivated.

The officers you say were new to the job were not new to the job. They had been on the job for over a year but had just emerged from the required one year probationary period for all new officers.

Then indict them too.

Your mere mention of ANTIFA ("BLM are also rejecting ANTIFA") gives away exactly where you're coming from. Trumpublicans just march out the ANTIFA bogeyman whenever they want to falsely tar some one or some group. No one has any gauge on the degree of involvement of ANTIFA in the protests, least of all Trumpublicans who do not require facts when making pronouncements.

I'm just telling you what I saw from firsthand experience, not a carefully constructed rage baiting narrative pumped over the airwaves nonstop. Almost no black protesters were engaged in rioting. But droves of little Antifa teenagers were very often stirring the pot -- staging rocks, bottles, flares, etc in innocent looking cement bags. They also created makeshift clubs and shields. The majority of black protesters kept urging them to stop because they feared that they would be blamed.

Antifa just two days ago set fire to a restaurant that they found out was catering to a local police department. Why? Because they're "boot lickers." This wasn't after hours either. This was during the day with innocent people who have nothing to do with sales working and could have been burned alive.

A lot of the protesters were also paid protesters. Can't tell you how many bragged about getting paid.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Percy, posted 06-09-2020 12:13 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by vimesey, posted 06-12-2020 7:23 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 524 by Percy, posted 06-27-2020 3:43 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1142
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 513 of 524 (877317)
06-12-2020 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Hyroglyphx
06-09-2020 3:40 PM


Re: Protests
I am aware that the protests have (in some circumstances, but certainly not in the majority) turned violent. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Antifa involvement had occurred (and nor would I be surprised if, as has been reported, there has been some involvement by right wing organisations too). And if an aspect of this is that paid agitators have been involved, that also wouldn’t surprise me. There have been some ugly aspects to the protests.

But these factors are as nothing, nothing to the sheer enormity of the continuing blight and evil of racism.

There is a huge, vile, ugly elephant in the room - and it’s starting to roar. You seem to be worried that it’s leaving a few scuff marks on the furniture.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-09-2020 3:40 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2020 7:19 PM vimesey has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 514 of 524 (877412)
06-15-2020 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by vimesey
06-12-2020 7:23 AM


Re: Protests
I am aware that the protests have (in some circumstances, but certainly not in the majority) turned violent.

Agreed.

But these factors are as nothing, nothing to the sheer enormity of the continuing blight and evil of racism.

The media throws whatever they can at the wall just to see what sticks.The outrage and racial animosity is largely manufactured by irresponsible journalism and social activism. Racism isn't dead because the media keeps it on life support. But its not the media alone, they are simply the conduit and the most pervasive. Its been fairly well established that some homogenous societies attack Western countries that have a wide and diverse range of cultures. Russia has been caught several times instigating race relations by creating Alt-Right propaganda and BLM propaganda for no other reason than to create division. They've been spreading disinformation since at least the 1960's and which continues on today. The goal, obviously, is to divide the nation as often as possible to create internal instability.

My point is that neither the US nor the UK is as racist as people would think. This isn't to say that it does not exist when it obviously does, but the thought that the overwhelming majority of white cops are systematically hunting down black people is an absurdity so silly that its really hard to believe anyone would actually believe that. There are literally millions of calls for service around the nation where nothing controversial happens. You are being inundated with nothing but negativity -- so much so that it paints a false narrative.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by vimesey, posted 06-12-2020 7:23 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by AZPaul3, posted 06-15-2020 9:56 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 516 by vimesey, posted 06-16-2020 1:10 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5190
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 515 of 524 (877416)
06-15-2020 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2020 7:19 PM


Re: Protests
My point is that neither the US nor the UK is as racist as people would think.

Says the white cop who wouldn't know racism if it kicked him in the nuts. You're white, Hyro. You can't see the racism so insidiously prevalent in this society because you don't live it on a daily basis. Go spend a couple months living and working deep in the barrio or in the hood then come back and talk to us.

This isn't to say that it does not exist when it obviously does, but the thought that the overwhelming majority of white cops are systematically hunting down black people is an absurdity so silly that its really hard to believe anyone would actually believe that.

No one even hinted at an "overwhelming majority". All it takes is a minority to systematically hunt down black people with the silence of the overwhelming majority of their blue brethren, the protection of their union and the inaction of their management to create a racist police state of fear and intimidation.

Do you think the few dozen+ Minneapolis police taped slashing tires while their brothers stood around watching was not meant to intimidate and instill fear? To "stop dangerous driving" my ass.

Nazi's, racists and bullies are all over police precincts all over the nation and there is nothing the blue wall can or will do to try to stop them.

Hyro, you live in the culture. You're a part of it. You and your other good cop brethren can't see the forest through the trees. Until you're willing to pull your piece on a fellow office like any other felon and tell him the stop then you are a part of the problem.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2020 7:19 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 517 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 6:25 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1142
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 516 of 524 (877423)
06-16-2020 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2020 7:19 PM


Re: Protests
Paul has said it very eloquently, so I won’t repeat his reply to you.

I will however point out one misunderstanding which is very prevalent, and which you seem to share. Systemic racism, (which is what the problem is) does not mean that everyone, or even a majority of people, are racist. It boils down to meaning two things: (1) the system is set up so that it disadvantages non-white people; and (2) the system is set up so that it enables and protects truly racist individuals.

The fact that there are many white people who aren’t racist, doesn’t mean that systemic racism does not exist. And as long as it does, we will live in a racist society, even if a lot of us aren’t racist.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2020 7:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 517 of 524 (877428)
06-16-2020 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by AZPaul3
06-15-2020 9:56 PM


Re: Protests
Says the white cop who wouldn't know racism if it kicked him in the nuts. You're white, Hyro. You can't see the racism so insidiously prevalent in this society because you don't live it on a daily basis. Go spend a couple months living and working deep in the barrio or in the hood then come back and talk to us.

I know a thing or two about the insidiousness of this society. I am, after all, the most despised thing on the planet.

1. Male
2. Caucasian
3. American
4. Police Officer

That is the most archetypal villain in the modern era and the first three were misfortunes at birth that I have no control over. That, in combination with my profession, is that my everyday reality is that before I have any interaction with anyone is that I'm perceived as a hideous monster. I'm a walking stereotype. Assumptions are made about me daily. How would I know with certainty? I'm motherfucked up and down. People aren't shy to tell you exactly how they feel about you before they ever meet you. Its the one profession where people can pretty much say whatever they want about you with both impunity and immunity.

But this is before they meet me... What you may not know is that I do live and work amongst peers -- my peers being the community at large. Where I am assigned to is the barrio and hood. I know very well what their troubles and travails are. Because I know that just like I've been branded, they too have been branded. Their scarlet letter may differ from mine, but we've all unfortunately been subjected to stereotypes.

I am acutely aware during every interaction how this interaction may be tainted through the lens of whatever stereotypes exist for the both of us. And I try to do my part by always treating everyone with the dignity and respect they deserve. I want to shatter these myths.

No one even hinted at an "overwhelming majority". All it takes is a minority to systematically hunt down black people with the silence of the overwhelming majority of their blue brethren, the protection of their union and the inaction of their management to create a racist police state of fear and intimidation.

It may be hard for me to understand that some agencies and departments really do have higher numbers of dyed-in-the-wool racists because I don't see this nonsense where I work. And if it ever does surface that it is quickly rooted out and excised like a tumor, because if left unchecked that tumor will metastasize. There are agencies that seem to have a different culture. One that cuts corners by making bullshit and chickenshit stops that are unconstitutional, some that really are inherently racist, and some that see people outside their thin blue line as some kind of enemy.

I know its out there, but to the extent that people think its out there is exaggerated.

Do you think the few dozen+ Minneapolis police taped slashing tires while their brothers stood around watching was not meant to intimidate and instill fear? To "stop dangerous driving" my ass.

I have no idea what you're referencing here. Please elaborate.

Hyro, you live in the culture. You're a part of it. You and your other good cop brethren can't see the forest through the trees. Until you're willing to pull your piece on a fellow office like any other felon and tell him the stop then you are a part of the problem.

What makes you think that doesn't happen? What you may not know is that when in the patrol car or back at the station that candid discussions are made. Reputations are built very, very quickly. We know which officers duck calls. We know which officers are overzealous and need to be reigned in or fired. We know which ones speak to the public disrespectfully. We know which ones bust their ass on a daily basis. We know which ones have a great relationship with the community. We know which ones are prone to escalating a call and we know which ones who have a gift to de-escalate a call. We know which ones who have a curiously high number of uses of force when compared to others.

There is no other profession as scrutinized, especially in this day and age.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by AZPaul3, posted 06-15-2020 9:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by ringo, posted 06-16-2020 10:36 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 519 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2020 11:16 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18374
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 518 of 524 (877436)
06-16-2020 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Hyroglyphx
06-16-2020 6:25 AM


Re: Protests
Hyroglyphx writes:

I am, after all, the most despised thing on the planet.

1. Male
2. Caucasian
3. American
4. Police Officer

That is the most archetypal villain in the modern era....


You're seriously deluded. In our entertainment media, the cops are worshipped to an embarassing degree - the bad ones along with the good. The most archetypal villains of our time are brown terrorists and brown drug dealers.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 6:25 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 4:25 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5190
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 519 of 524 (877441)
06-16-2020 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by Hyroglyphx
06-16-2020 6:25 AM


Re: Protests
I am, after all, the most despised thing on the planet.

I feel for you, Hyroglyphx. You are at the top of the political power structure in this society. Has to be such a burden to exercise powers and have such advantages and protections the rest of us only dream of in the American ideal. How can you bear the strain of being at the top of the food chain?

Minneapolis police taped slashing tires

You don't know the reference? Seriously? How is that possible?

Are you and your fellows so callus to the police abuses going on in Minneapolis, Buffalo, Seattle, LA and a half dozen other places?

Old men and women who are no threat being pushed to the ground and then walked over and left bleeding on the ground? Calmly walking up to non-violent protesters ripping their masks off to hit them with pepper spray? Running your squad car into a crowd of non-violent peaceful protesters? Continuously beating women cowering on the ground in submission?

Not just one or two such occurrences but dozens upon dozens all caught on camera splashed across the internet to the point where foreign governments voice there concerns about "rioting" American police.

You and your colleagues don't see, don't hear ANY of this?

God help us the poison has gone so deep they are blind to the society around them.

Police in Minneapolis Slash Dozens of Parked Cars’ Tires

A Terrible Montage of Police Brutality

Cops Meet Police Brutality Protests with More Police Brutality | The Daily Social Distancing Show

Police: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 6:25 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 4:51 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 520 of 524 (877468)
06-16-2020 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by ringo
06-16-2020 10:36 AM


Re: Protests
You're seriously deluded. In our entertainment media, the cops are worshipped to an embarassing degree - the bad ones along with the good. The most archetypal villains of our time are brown terrorists and brown drug dealers.

Hmm, maybe that's why they call cops "Blue Isis."


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by ringo, posted 06-16-2020 10:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by ringo, posted 06-16-2020 5:17 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 521 of 524 (877474)
06-16-2020 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by AZPaul3
06-16-2020 11:16 AM


Re: Protests
I feel for you, Hyroglyphx. You are at the top of the political power structure in this society. Has to be such a burden to exercise powers and have such advantages and protections the rest of us only dream of in the American ideal. How can you bear the strain of being at the top of the food chain?

Maybe in the 1950's that'd be true but that's clearly not the case in this day and age.

Minneapolis police taped slashing tires
You don't know the reference? Seriously? How is that possible?

Probably because I've been busy working daily for 2.5 weeks handling our own issues.

Are you and your fellows so callus to the police abuses going on in Minneapolis, Buffalo, Seattle, LA and a half dozen other places?

I've heard and seen some improprieties coming from different cities. But then again I've seen the media conflating peaceful protestors with agitators and selectively covering police responses. Its been my personal experience that the overwhelming majority of protestors have been peaceful and that the longer it goes on the more peaceful it becomes. That definitely was not the case for about the first 3 days where molotov cocktails, bricks, rocks, bottles, battery acid and other things hurled at police that were doing nothing except standing there and preventing protestors from taking over highways or police stations.

Old men and women who are no threat being pushed to the ground and then walked over and left bleeding on the ground? Calmly walking up to non-violent protesters ripping their masks off to hit them with pepper spray? Running your squad car into a crowd of non-violent peaceful protesters? Continuously beating women cowering on the ground in submission?

I've definitely seen some footage that is disgusting concerning police overreactions, to the point of being criminal. As such they need to be arraigned on charges if they overstep their bounds. But then again it goes both ways. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just as it is conceivable for you to distinguish between peaceful protests and violent ones, I would hope that you would be able to distinguish between excessive force and appropriate force. Just because I see one violent protestor I cannot brush with broad strokes to think that all or even most are.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2020 11:16 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18374
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 522 of 524 (877477)
06-16-2020 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Hyroglyphx
06-16-2020 4:25 PM


Re: Protests
Hyroglyphx writes:

Hmm, maybe that's why they call cops "Blue Isis."


It's an apt comparison.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-16-2020 4:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 523 of 524 (877964)
06-23-2020 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Hyroglyphx
06-09-2020 3:20 PM


Re: Marquez Shooting Deliberation
Hyroglyphx writes:

This is false. It's a video. You can queue it up to the exact point in time where you think there is an officer on the staircase that she is aiming at. Go ahead and try to find that point in the video, then post it here queued up properly. You can find instructions on how to do that here: No YouTube URL Provided dBCode Help

You already queued it up for me...

Here's a frame from the video where the gun Marquez is holding is visible in the video. It's visible in several consecutive frames. There is no officer on the staircase:

I'm just trying to have a rational discussion with you based upon facts. You claimed the video showed Marquez pointing the gun at an officer on the staircase. There is no officer on the staircase. The video does not show what you claimed it did. If you modify your claim to something supported by the facts then we can discuss that.

It wouldn't matter with you anyhow.

Evidence always matter with me and should be the primary resource for any investigation by anyone.

You think cops are supposed to magically be able to have x-ray vision and know within a split second whether a gun is real or supposed to look real. You've also said elsewhere that cops shouldn't shoot unless they're being fired upon, which is an absurdity.

My main position is that most cops shouldn't have guns period, which solves the problem of cops seeing their guns as the solution to too many problems.

I don't know what it is with people seeing things in videos that simply aren't there.

Look in the mirror when you say that. Even people that hate guns had said, concerning the London Bridge incident, that if there were ever a justified shooting that that would be it.

You're using the Argumentum ad populum fallacy. A narrative many people like doesn't mean it's supported by the evidence, which it's not.

I'm going to let the rest of your post stand as a testament to the attitudes that make interaction with modern law enforcement so dangerous.

Meaning?

Meaning that the positions you stake out are a more accurate portrayal of your attitudes than your own claims about yourself.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-09-2020 3:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19846
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 524 of 524 (878228)
06-27-2020 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 512 by Hyroglyphx
06-09-2020 3:40 PM


Re: Protests
Hyroglyphx writes:

You're still backing the "bad apples" theory. George Floyd's death was a result of systemic racism, not bad apples. This is not a problem of bad apples. It is a problem of a bad system.

The only sure evidence we have here is that Chauvin is a piece of shit who needs to be buried underneath the jail.

It's not a "bad apple" problem but a systemic problem.

I'm curious as to why you think it was racially motivated. I'm not saying it wasn't but what evidence is there to suggest that there was?

A much higher percentage of blacks get police attention or arrested. How much of that bump do you think represents racism?

My point is that when a black officer kills a black man there's not much media fanfare. When a white cop kills a white man there's not much media fanfare. When anybody kills a cop there's not a lot of fanfare. When a white cop kills a black man, there's always huge media coverage. And the implication is always that it was racially motivated.

This is just typical racist white grievance crap.

The officers you say were new to the job were not new to the job. They had been on the job for over a year but had just emerged from the required one year probationary period for all new officers.

Then indict them too.

Yes, a heavier hand, that will fix the problem.

I still think the best suggestion is to spread the many police responsibilities across other city departments where it makes more sense. Police should be conducting law enforcement, not wellness checks and so forth.

Your mere mention of ANTIFA ("BLM are also rejecting ANTIFA") gives away exactly where you're coming from. Trumpublicans just march out the ANTIFA bogeyman whenever they want to falsely tar some one or some group. No one has any gauge on the degree of involvement of ANTIFA in the protests, least of all Trumpublicans who do not require facts when making pronouncements.

I'm just telling you what I saw from firsthand experience, not a carefully constructed rage baiting narrative pumped over the airwaves nonstop. Almost no black protesters were engaged in rioting. But droves of little Antifa teenagers were very often stirring the pot -- staging rocks, bottles, flares, etc in innocent looking cement bags. They also created makeshift clubs and shields. The majority of black protesters kept urging them to stop because they feared that they would be blamed.

I think you're on a roll.

Antifa just two days ago set fire to a restaurant that they found out was catering to a local police department. Why? Because they're "boot lickers." This wasn't after hours either. This was during the day with innocent people who have nothing to do with sales working and could have been burned alive.

A lot of the protesters were also paid protesters. Can't tell you how many bragged about getting paid.

And it just keeps coming.

Do you have any actual evidence of this? Calling your account into question are articles like Federal Arrests Show No Sign That Antifa Plotted Protests and False stories about "paid protesters" spike — again — in effort to delegitimize Black Lives Matter protests.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-09-2020 3:40 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
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