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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 427 of 507 (878025)
06-24-2020 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by Tangle
06-24-2020 3:37 PM


Humans: Are We Making It Up?
We often go rounds here at EvC Forum regarding religious studies, Spirituality, and, in the case of my involvement, Christianity itself. As the years go by, I find myself studying more and more regarding these piles of books on Theology, Origins of Belief, Philosophy, and of course tangling with my beloved atheist Tangle.
As an aside, Chris you might want to turn Charles on to Isaiah Saldivar.
He is on point and is one of the most dynamic speakers today regarding contemporary Eschatology and End Times Apologetics. I'm not sure where you stand---you are more reserved, "religious" and in tune with tradition over what some might call sensationalism. I remember years ago I bugged you guys to try and contact me....perhaps I was a bit creepy...but those who know me here in Denver will defend my honor! Hit me up on my FB Page
To you all: I recently have read a good book by Ellis Potter. 3 Theories of Everything. It basically refined my Christian/Spiritual Worldview with a thought provoking talk which incorporated some of the ideas given to me by others which i previously rejected...I recommend checking it out. Tangle won't of course since he is already thoroughly convinced that the God character and the Jesus character are confined to the book!
Edited by Phat, : fixed link

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by Tangle, posted 06-24-2020 3:37 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 429 of 507 (878042)
06-25-2020 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 428 by Tangle
06-25-2020 3:35 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
tangle writes:
You have the accounts of anonymous authors, copying from each other, written decades after the alleged event about things that they themselves did not witness.
This is far from conclusive. Why should I trust what only some critics conclude? There is a controversy regarding scriptural inspiration and inerrancy. You are choosing only to believe one side, and by and large I dont trust the motives of these guys.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 06-25-2020 3:35 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 10:19 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 437 of 507 (878137)
06-26-2020 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals
06-25-2020 3:33 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Not really. The majority of the public is unaware of the supernatural realm.
Call me crazy.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-25-2020 3:33 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 439 of 507 (878161)
06-26-2020 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by ringo
06-25-2020 10:19 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
ringo writes:
What ulterior motives would the critics of your dogma have?
The same motives that satan himself has. To discredit Jesus Christ, to seduce people (through false logic and wisdom) to ultimately deny the truth in the Bible, throw the book away as an authoritative source and to promote inclusive humanism.
Which would not be a problem did not Satan exist.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 10:19 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM Phat has replied
 Message 444 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 441 of 507 (878166)
06-26-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 440 by jar
06-26-2020 12:42 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
All that I am defending is the belief that Jesus Christ exists and is alive today. You will again ask what that even means but I wont tell you. Figure it out for yourself.
The reason that I debate here at EvC on these matters is because all of you claim that the characters in the book are limited to the book. Some of you choose to be atheists and some of you claim to be believers but the common thread amongst all of you is the idea that humans create the gods they worship. It has been my experience and subsequent belief that God is alive and that through communion with Jesus Christ I accept this and know it. Perhaps someday I will be proven wrong, but if so, God Himself will do it...it wont be by any human agent. I know too much to ever look back.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:10 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 442 of 507 (878167)
06-26-2020 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 440 by jar
06-26-2020 12:42 PM


Only Medicine Men Make These Claims?
jar writes:
It is the medicine men standing on the tailgate of the medicine wagon selling Snake Oil that make the claims of TRUTH or WISDOM.
Is that so?
Our Daily Bread
Yes I copied a website. Yes, it says what I would have said anyway in my defense of your medicine man accusation. I grant that many, if not a majority of those who sell religion are apologetic con men. Jesus warned about being lukewarm in the book of Revelation, saying how He wished we humans were either cold or hot.
You have yet to prove that the apologetic message common to many if not most Christians falsely proclaims a living Christ who rose from the dead, sent the comforter(Holy Spirit) to earth (yes exclusively for whosoever believes) and yet also inclusively as a warm blanket for humanity-at-large and will return in bodily form some day.
We simply ask you to look at reality honestly; what is actually written.
But you yourself said that the book was written, conceived, edited, and redacted solely in the mind of humans. So why push this idea of what was actually written? I'll tell you why. You want to describe your own narrative which minimizes Jesus Christ and maximizes human responsibility. John the Baptist said the opposite. Humans must decrease and Jesus must increase. (paraphrased)
I could well say that your argument contains as much snake oil as mine does...and at the end of the day we are both humans attempting to define our belief.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 12:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 2:55 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 446 of 507 (878204)
06-27-2020 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by ringo
06-26-2020 4:10 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Actually...it is you who are clueless. We are in the last days. The signs are all around us. Here is what you will see.
1) Lawlessness. More tearing down statues, defunding police and the authority structure of society, scantily clad young women and brazen sexuality coupled with a pagan disregard for the old social structure.....all sorts of sexuality freely flaunted in public under the guise of human rights...a global inclusive religion that accepts all faiths as equally valid,
hatred of exclusive Christianity and op-en mockery which will soon turn into blatant hatred and even a push to shut the prophets up as they will be charged with being a public nuisance and politically incorrect.
To be fair, there will be many nuts running around. They are also a scheme of the enemy...making the Christians look stupid.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 9:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 447 of 507 (878205)
06-27-2020 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by ringo
06-26-2020 4:07 PM


Jesus promoted inclusive humanism.
Jesus promoted inclusive humanism. Why are you afraid to discuss that?
Im not afraid at all. The difference is that Jesus was the authority rather than lawlessness. He was the fulfillment of the law. He was and is Love, Truth, and the fulfillment of the Laws given by Moses. He is the law written on human hearts. Without Him all we have is a bunch of hippy socialists who advocate free love, anything goes sex with any gender combination,l and every religion being equally valid. The rights of the individual will be protected, but the authority of Jesus Christ will be mocked, ridiculed, and ultimately banned.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by ringo, posted 06-26-2020 4:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 9:30 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 448 of 507 (878206)
06-27-2020 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 443 by jar
06-26-2020 2:55 PM


Re: Only Medicine Men Make Those Claims
What I ask you to do is honestly look beyond the claims to what is actually written, what is actually the history, what is actually the basics of Christianity.
If the conclusion reached is that god is a human creation, you can see why I reject your "honesty" and Socratic study of comparative religions and inclusiveness.
And the reason you see no problem with it is that not only do you see God as a symbol of human purpose yet vague and abstract, you dont believe that evil exists as a spirit. The Man of lawlessness will soon follow. And just as the Jews were blinded as to their Messiah back in Romans, you and others will be blinded as to the times we are in.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 2:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by jar, posted 06-27-2020 8:05 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 456 of 507 (878226)
06-27-2020 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by ringo
06-27-2020 9:30 AM


Re: Jesus promoted inclusive humanism.
ringo writes:
Forget about that fairy tale. Talk about reality.
Don't get glib with me. The topic is open. You wont get away with dismissing Christianity as a Fairy Tale being a default position and I dont care which Forum we are at.
I've heard several voices at once come out of a guy. I had two witnesses with me. You cant convince me that these stories are fairy tales, nor should you even have that as a motive. And I know that you mock the apologists, but William Lane Craig was one of the better ones and he said:
quote:
Someone passed on to me a question via email that someone in the class had after hearing my talk on the hiddenness of God. This person asked, What do you mean by saying God doesn’t care if we believe that he exists or not? What I said was that it is a matter of relative indifference to God whether or not we believe that he exists. Rather, what God is primarily interested in is building a love relationship with us — bringing us into a saving relationship with himself. If he cannot achieve that end because of our free will and rebelliousness then relatively speaking it is a matter of indifference whether or not you come to believe that God exists. So you have, for example, the apostle James saying in his epistle, Do you believe that God is one? You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble. James there I think is using a bit of irony. He is saying, You believe there is one God? Well, good for you. That is just fine. Even the demons believe, and they tremble because they have no saving relationship with God. I think what James is saying there is that if you believe that God exists but you don’t really know him (you are not in relationship with him) then just believing that he exists doesn’t really do you any good at all. It is a matter of relative unimportance to believe that God exists, unless you truly believe in God, unless you know God, and have a saving relationship with him.
So what the atheist is assuming when he propounds the hiddenness of God is that if God were to make his existence more obvious that there would be more people who would come into a saving relationship with God than actually do in the actual world. My point was that that is sheer speculation on the atheist’s part. He has no way at all of knowing that in a world in which the existence of God was as a plain as the nose on your face that more people would come to love, believe in, and trust God than do in the actual world. Since the atheist cannot prove that, the fact that God’s existence is not more obvious therefore does not cast any kind of improbability upon God’s existence.

I will admit that you folks at EvC are better than average at demolishing apologetic arguments, but to use the one about evidence and that absence of evidence equating to evidence of absence wont fly in this argument. It is not up to my side to support the positive truth claim. That's a weak argument. If anything, both sides bare a burden of proof to some degree.
ringo writes:
Why would I want to discredit somebody who never existed?
This is a perfect example of a claim which requires more than parroting mythicist arguments and secular scholars with no ax to grind. Perhaps the Bible enjoyed a free pass for years until these debunkers came along and sharpened their arguments (and I would argue their ax'es) but atheism is not the default. Get off your hobby horse and grow a pair.
ringo writes:
Point out the false logic.
That's easy.
  • Jesus likely never existed. (Burden of proof is on you. Simply saying that millions of people accepted a myth is weak at best. You attack (or perhaps challenge is a better word ) the authors, the credibility of the authors and yet we never know the motives of the authors. jar claims that source is moot and that content should be judged. I argue that motive remains an important piece of evidence.
    ringo writes:
    But you're the one who throws out the Bible.
    Nonsense. I may not hand out as much spare change as you do, but I help clothe, feed, and encourage as many folks on a daily basis as do you guys. Where we differ is that you claim that the messenger (the very Son of the Living God) is unimportant and that atheist secular humanists can actually do a better job taking care of needy people than can many if not most of the believers. Sadly, you may have a point on this one. jar used to argue against the excuse that was made that the perps were not really true Christians, but I would allow that one in court due to the belief that people are born fallen and that there are far too many lukewarm believers which give the sold out believers a bad rap.
    ringo writes:
    We've been in the "last days" for two thousand years. Isn't that fairy tale getting a bit tired by now?
    I dont think so. Shall I use the book or will you say that the book itself is a fairy tale whenever it suits your purpose yet accuse me of not following that same book when it suits your arguments?
    2 Peter 3:3-7 writes:
    First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
    And that brings up another common one used here at EvC: Examining the Bible honestly in order to determine the compilation of books actual purpose and meaning. We can get to that.
    ringo writes:
    Try again. "Jesus promoted inclusive humanism." Discuss.
    I will be honest with you regarding this one. I began examining the evidence(The Bible itself) in order to refute your claim and uphold the claim of the exclusiveness of Christ What I ended up finding was that Jesus did promote inclusive humanism. One could argue, however, that He did want people to follow Him and that His way was exclusive when it came to belief yet inclusive when it came to actions and works. But thats another argument regarding Johns Redactors.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 451 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 9:30 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 461 by ringo, posted 06-27-2020 10:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 469 of 507 (878264)
    06-28-2020 11:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 467 by Trump won
    06-28-2020 10:45 AM


    Humans Are Both Making It Up & Living It Out
    Maybe I should have this conversation with you rather than Tangle. He thinks that we all make religion up anyway, so his input is irrelevant except that he does read the news and he will argue that if anyone has the authority to change dogmatic doctrine it would be the official head of that church rather than not. So I see his approach.
    I too believe in the Catholic Church, but not specifically the Roman one. I believe in one Body of Believers. A believer by definition is one who is called out.
    We all know or think we know what the one true Church is. It is the one we are individually called to belong to in our heart that very day that we actually met Jesus Christ. And i've been to several churches. The best ones are highly relational...not in isolation or ritual with each other but in honesty with each other and corporately as the hands of Jesus for the community which they are called to serve. No man is an island. We dont "get saved" for an individual experience. We are called to become part of the universal Body of Christ throughout the earth for the sole purpose of serving others the way that He impresses our heart and conscience to serve. Politics is but a distraction in the grand scheme of things, and I am unsure at this point how Jesus, were He to return bodily..would think about human politics. Would politics even be relevant at the point where He was back on earth bodily? At any rate, we have to try and do our best first.
    It seems foreknown that humans will give it their best shot first. Were I God, I would insist that humans give it their best shot and at least try to make a better world first. I'm not coming back simply to make everyone comfortable. Of course some Saints are suffering now. And perhaps some of those dont yet know they are Saints.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 467 by Trump won, posted 06-28-2020 10:45 AM Trump won has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 479 by Trump won, posted 06-28-2020 10:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 470 of 507 (878265)
    06-28-2020 12:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 468 by Tangle
    06-28-2020 11:28 AM


    Tangling with Religion Is A Waste Of Time
    Tangle, to CSP writes:
    So not only can the Catholic Church change its mind, so can you! Apparently you now accept that everything I said had changed has been changed. Celibacy, Limbo, divorce and the rest.
    Humans can and do change their minds. Whats your point? Humans are part of either the Body of Christ or the body of the Antichrist by default. At the current time, many (including you) dont know which one they belong to but there is no third option. You can laugh it all off or ignore it all you want but the fact is you will either belong to one body or the other one. Try and do your best every day. Dont worry about religion. My only advice? Trust Jesus. Dont attempt to put Him out of your mind as if he is a fairy tale.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 468 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 11:28 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 471 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 12:58 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 473 of 507 (878273)
    06-28-2020 3:50 PM
    Reply to: Message 471 by Tangle
    06-28-2020 12:58 PM


    Re: Tangling with Religion Is A Waste Of Time
    Why would anyone believe that it wasn't all made up?
    Good question. Logical and otherwise rational people would likely think that way. The reason I differ is because I had some very profound experiences and encounters(at least in the realm of my perception) which caused me to believe otherwise.
    Anyone can make shit up, now it's you.
    Except that I'm not making any of my experiences up.
    Phat writes:
    Try and do your best every day. Don't worry about religion.
    Tangle writes:
    But of course, why would anyone do anything else?
    Whereupon my parting advice was to trust Jesus and resist dismissing Him as a fairy tale, whereupon Tangle shot back:
    Don't be bloody ridiculous.
    Which mystifies me. Are you afraid to trust the Spirit?
    Are you afraid for yourself that you would be going nuts or are you afraid of what others would think of you?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 471 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 12:58 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 474 by Tangle, posted 06-28-2020 4:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 489 of 507 (878395)
    06-29-2020 4:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 484 by Tangle
    06-29-2020 1:11 PM


    Belief & Sanity
    One day we'll get some believer in here that has a brain and is basically sane.
    You mean someone like Dr.John Lennox? Or do you really mean that you don't see how belief and sanity could rationally coexist?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 484 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 1:11 PM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 490 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 4:49 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 496 of 507 (878438)
    06-30-2020 8:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 495 by Tangle
    06-30-2020 3:05 AM


    Re: Belief & Sanity
    OK so you've made a decent case that *religion* and the traditions of man are by and large invented. But why does this carry over into the very idea of the story of Jesus being invented? And why does it mean for many that the concept of GOD is invented? I have heard some fairly strong persuasion from the few people whom I trust and know who beg to differ. Of course, without evidence all we have is belief...but why does your belief seem to be so weak in this area?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 495 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 3:05 AM Tangle has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 497 by jar, posted 06-30-2020 9:27 AM Phat has replied
     Message 504 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2020 12:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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