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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2379
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1366 of 1436 (878358)
06-29-2020 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1356 by dad
06-28-2020 7:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
You view the fossil record as having been formed in our nature. You cannot prove it. So you try to shift the burden of proof to other beliefs!

Why would we want to shift the burden of proof to you? You don't know anything.

Science is not interested in proving anything to you. Science is never finished, it is just a systematic process to understand observations of phenomena in our Universe.

If there is, or was a different nature, it does not make any difference to science, because from our vantage point a distant galaxy looks the same as if the Universe is same there as it is here. Science has never detected anything resembling transitions to a "nature" where physics and chemistry do not operate the same as here and now.

If science cannot detect something AND if science can still make observations and report the results and make tentative conclusions, then it can operate as if nature is the same. Science will continue to observe nature, and if something like your imaginary other nature is discovered, will report it and study it and include it in our body of scientific knowledge.

Science is about skepticism not beliefs. Scientists challenge each other for data, for evidence, not wishes or beliefs or fantasies. Scientists also, run their observations and discoveries and conclusions passed their colleagues, trying to find any flaws in their hypothesis.

Scientists don't care what you believe. Scientists are not making observations or conclusions to refute your beliefs. Scientists are publishing their work for other scientists who are likely the only people who can understand and appreciate it. If YOU want to understand it you have to learn what science actually is. Unless you are doing the science you will have little or no influence over the conclusions.

I can use belief in looking at the fossil record also.

Belief is a clumsy tool. I would use a microscope.

ABE: So, what does your belief tell you about Meganeura monyi?

Edited by Tanypteryx, : Remembered I wanted to ask a question.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1356 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 7:52 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1369 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:22 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5190
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1367 of 1436 (878373)
06-29-2020 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1360 by dad
06-29-2020 2:12 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
Why have you failed?

I didn't. Message 1352

You're just too intellectually blind to recognize it.

Again, you uphold the stereotype of the inane religionist.

The records so indicate a different nature though.

What records would those be? Your book of errant goat herder myths?

Only the most brain dead religiously servile sycophant would actually believe that crap.

No change in nature happened. You have nothing.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1360 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 2:12 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1370 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:23 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1368 of 1436 (878376)
06-29-2020 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1363 by Tangle
06-29-2020 2:50 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
No, they do not appear to be old at all. Only if we used the belief systems foisted on us by those who think they have intellect towering above God would it look old. The stars look beautiful to me, not old. The earth looks fine also. If I see a rock, I would not interpret the ratios in that rock to have all be formed in this nature, while ignoring creation as well as the old world! Only in such denial would it look old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1363 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 2:50 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1371 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 3:34 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1369 of 1436 (878377)
06-29-2020 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1366 by Tanypteryx
06-29-2020 12:37 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Why would we want to shift the burden of proof to you? You don't know anything.

Science is not interested in proving anything to you. Science is never finished, it is just a systematic process to understand observations of phenomena in our Universe.


You shift the burden of proving the basis for all models of the past you make because you cannot prove it. Obviously. Therefore you seek to ask anyone and everyone with other beliefs to do what you cannot do yourself, prove them! Hypocrites.
quote:
If there is, or was a different nature, it does not make any difference to science, because from our vantage point a distant galaxy looks the same as if the Universe is same there as it is here. Science has never detected anything resembling transitions to a "nature" where physics and chemistry do not operate the same as here and now.

Yes it makes a difference since no one cares how it 'looks to you'. Science uses the belief that it was the same in all models of the past. When doing this, how could anything possibly be seen as anything other than present nature caused? You cannot be honest or objective.

[quote]If science cannot detect something AND if science can still make observations and report the results and make tentative conclusions, then it can operate as if nature is the same. Science will continue to observe nature, and if something like your imaginary other nature is discovered, will report it and study it and include it in our body of scientific knowledge./quote

People could assume the tooth fairy tooted and made the universe. They could view all things through the lens of that belief, and report their conclusions. That is what science does, put all evidence and observations through a belief lens. Then they report back about what it looks like to them! Too bad the reports have no reality to them, or usefulness in actual science, or any application in the earth at all.

quote:
Belief is a clumsy tool. I would use a microscope.
That changes nothing. You still splatter beliefs all over the little things you see. The same is true if you use a telescope!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1366 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 12:37 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1373 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 4:52 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1370 of 1436 (878378)
06-29-2020 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1367 by AZPaul3
06-29-2020 2:57 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
No change in nature happened.
I tend to agree. The nature that changed would not have been this present nature. So no big changes in the present nature happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1367 by AZPaul3, posted 06-29-2020 2:57 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7733
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1371 of 1436 (878386)
06-29-2020 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1368 by dad
06-29-2020 3:12 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

No, they do not appear to be old at all.

Try to get passed YOU. I realise this is very hard for you, but try. This is about what others are seeing and thinking. They would not be thinking all this if they did not see what they think is good evidence.

The evidence exists, YOU can see it. You think that the interpretation of that evidence is wrong, but nevertheless it exists and has fooled tens of thousands of clever people.

So, one last time, why make the evidence that fools us?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1368 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:12 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1372 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:42 PM Tangle has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1372 of 1436 (878389)
06-29-2020 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1371 by Tangle
06-29-2020 3:34 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Try to get passed YOU.
Try to get passed YOU.

quote:
This is about what others are seeing and thinking. They would not be thinking all this if they did not see what they think is good evidence.

Says you. I suggest many people cling to preferred beliefs. I have shown that what many here have called evidence was nothing more than a splattering of voluminous beliefs onto evidences. If they still think that is good, then they better be able to defend the beliefs.
quote:
why make the evidence that fools us?
It does not fool us all! I have pointed out that the reason many are fooled is because they paint evidences with godless baseless beliefs. It is not a matter of evidence at all, only about what beliefs we use looking at the evidence!

Edited by dad, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1371 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 3:34 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1374 by Tangle, posted 06-29-2020 4:57 PM dad has not yet responded
 Message 1375 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 5:08 PM dad has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2379
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1373 of 1436 (878400)
06-29-2020 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1369 by dad
06-29-2020 3:22 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

quote:
Why would we want to shift the burden of proof to you? You don't know anything.
Science is not interested in proving anything to you. Science is never finished, it is just a systematic process to understand observations of phenomena in our Universe.
You shift the burden of proving the basis for all models of the past you make because you cannot prove it. Obviously. Therefore you seek to ask anyone and everyone with other beliefs to do what you cannot do yourself, prove them! Hypocrites.

Nope! I just said we already know that YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENCE, so if we want to understand ANYTHING, we would NEVER ask you. We already know that your beliefs will never answer our questions.

dad writes:

Yes it makes a difference since no one cares how it 'looks to you'.

Well good, if you don't care how it looks to us, then we don't have to worry about sharing time on the telescope with you. And when I look through my telescope and see a red star and then photograph it, I will report my observation of the red star and that I photographed it. I will not report that I didn't see anything, I will not report that it was green or blue.

dad writes:

Science uses the belief that it was the same in all models of the past.

If something is the same in all models you only need one model. Science is exciting when something different or unexpected is observed.

dad writes:

When doing this, how could anything possibly be seen as anything other than present nature caused?

If a distant star looks red when I look through my telescope in my backyard then THAT is what I will report. If I hook a spectrometer up to my telescope and it gives me a reading of a wavelength in the red part of the spectrum, THAT is what I will report.

dad writes:

You cannot be honest or objective.

Really? Please point to the dishonest or nonobjective part of reporting my observations of a red star with my telescope and spectrometer in my backyard, on planet earth, last night at 10:46.

dad writes:

People could assume the tooth fairy tooted and made the universe.

People can and do make up lots of crazy stuff, but luckily the "tooth fairy fart" cult is spending all their time in a spat with the "god's exploding turd" cult so we don't have to even bother telling them we have a telescope.

dad writes:

That is what science does, put all evidence and observations through a belief lens.

Now see, that's why you flunked out of every science class. That is what religion does, put all evidence and observations through a belief lens.

dad writes:

Too bad the reports have no reality to them, or usefulness in actual science, or any application in the earth at all.

Sounds like sour grapes because we won't share our knowledge with you.

quote:
Belief is a clumsy tool. I would use a microscope.
That changes nothing. You still splatter beliefs all over the little things you see. The same is true if you use a telescope!

Well, like I said, I'm just happy I don't have to share any of my viewing time with you. I enjoy exchanging observations with other scientists, but you would not.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1369 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:22 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1376 by dad, posted 06-30-2020 1:12 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7733
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1374 of 1436 (878402)
06-29-2020 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1372 by dad
06-29-2020 3:42 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

Try to get passed YOU.

ok, you're determined to be thoughtless, indoctrinated idiot, incapable of independent thought. I'll leave you to your bronze age myths.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1372 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:42 PM dad has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2379
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1375 of 1436 (878405)
06-29-2020 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1372 by dad
06-29-2020 3:42 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

I have shown that what many here have called evidence was nothing more than a splattering of voluminous beliefs onto evidences.

Wow! All those words to say I blow my left nostril at my left nostril.

dad writes:

If they still think that is good, then they better be able to defend the beliefs.

Against what? Your "nothing more than a splattering of voluminous beliefs," you need to up your game a bit, dad.

dad writes:

It is not a matter of evidence at all, only about what beliefs we use looking at the evidence!


And that's why the big kids won't let you do science.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1372 by dad, posted 06-29-2020 3:42 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1377 by dad, posted 06-30-2020 1:13 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1376 of 1436 (878424)
06-30-2020 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1373 by Tanypteryx
06-29-2020 4:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Well good, if you don't care how it looks to us, then we don't have to worry about sharing time on the telescope with you. And when I look through my telescope and see a red star and then photograph it, I will report my observation of the red star and that I photographed it. I will not report that I didn't see anything, I will not report that it was green or blue.

Then you might feel as if you really dis something clever?

quote:
If something is the same in all models you only need one model. Science is exciting when something different or unexpected is observed.

Excitment has to do with truth and reality. If science finds it was wrong on predictions that should not excite them. It should wake them up.

quote:
If a distant star looks red when I look through my telescope in my backyard then THAT is what I will report. If I hook a spectrometer up to my telescope and it gives me a reading of a wavelength in the red part of the spectrum, THAT is what I will report.
And if time is required to know distance and oyu merely believe it exists the same in deep space that is what I will report.

quote:
Really? Please point to the dishonest or nonobjective part of reporting my observations of a red star with my telescope and spectrometer in my backyard, on planet earth, last night at 10:46.
Nothing. However if you were to claim the star was red shifted because of reasons we see on earth, I would question that. If you claimed the star was 1000 times bigger than the sun and a million ly away, I would question that. If you claimed the star came to exist by stellar evolution 400,000,000 years ago, I would question that. If all you report is 'gee whiz, that little star appears red from my back yard', well you get a pass.

quote:
People can and do make up lots of crazy stuff, but luckily the "tooth fairy fart" cult is spending all their time in a spat with the "god's exploding turd" cult so we don't have to even bother telling them we have a telescope.

If you claimed that the stars seen in your telescope sailed out of a hot little soup in a fraction of a second, your fable would rank less than the other.

quote:
Now see, that's why you flunked out of every science class. That is what religion does, put all evidence and observations through a belief lens.
If you knew what truth and fact and real evidence and testing was all about, you would not be pretending you knew much at all here.

quote:
Sounds like sour grapes because we won't share our knowledge with you.
Origin claims of so called science are not knowledge, that are deep fantasy and fake news.

quote:
Well, like I said, I'm just happy I don't have to share any of my viewing time with you. I enjoy exchanging observations with other scientists, but you would not.
looking at little light is not a crime.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1373 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 4:52 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1378 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-30-2020 2:40 AM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1377 of 1436 (878425)
06-30-2020 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1375 by Tanypteryx
06-29-2020 5:08 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
False bravado. You cannot defend your claims and religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1375 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-29-2020 5:08 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2379
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1378 of 1436 (878433)
06-30-2020 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1376 by dad
06-30-2020 1:12 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:

quote:
Well good, if you don't care how it looks to us, then we don't have to worry about sharing time on the telescope with you. And when I look through my telescope and see a red star and then photograph it, I will report my observation of the red star and that I photographed it. I will not report that I didn't see anything, I will not report that it was green or blue.

Then you might feel as if you really dis something clever?

Nope, just saying that I would report what I observe.

dad writes:

quote:
If something is the same in all models you only need one model. Science is exciting when something different or unexpected is observed.

Excitment has to do with truth and reality. If science finds it was wrong on predictions that should not excite them. It should wake them up.

Now see, you just keep saying stupid shit, no wonder no one will let you near science.

dad writes:

quote:
If a distant star looks red when I look through my telescope in my backyard then THAT is what I will report. If I hook a spectrometer up to my telescope and it gives me a reading of a wavelength in the red part of the spectrum, THAT is what I will report.
And if time is required to know distance and oyu merely believe it exists the same in deep space that is what I will report.

I didn't say anything about the distance, I am just reporting what I see, a red star. Are you calling me a liar?

dad writes:

quote:
Really? Please point to the dishonest or nonobjective part of reporting my observations of a red star with my telescope and spectrometer in my backyard, on planet earth, last night at 10:46.
Nothing. However if you were to claim the star was red shifted because of reasons we see on earth, I would question that. If you claimed the star was 1000 times bigger than the sun and a million ly away, I would question that. If you claimed the star came to exist by stellar evolution 400,000,000 years ago, I would question that. If all you report is 'gee whiz, that little star appears red from my back yard', well you get a pass.

I didn't say any of that stuff that just popped into your head and I wouldn't say any of that because it is gibberish.

dad writes:

quote:
People can and do make up lots of crazy stuff, but luckily the "tooth fairy fart" cult is spending all their time in a spat with the "god's exploding turd" cult so we don't have to even bother telling them we have a telescope.

If you claimed that the stars seen in your telescope sailed out of a hot little soup in a fraction of a second, your fable would rank less than the other.

Well, I would never claim something as stupid as that.

dad writes:

quote:
Now see, that's why you flunked out of every science class. That is what religion does, put all evidence and observations through a belief lens.
If you knew what truth and fact and real evidence and testing was all about, you would not be pretending you knew much at all here.

And I am happy to say that I am not pretending to know much at all here.

dad writes:

quote:
Sounds like sour grapes because we won't share our knowledge with you.
Origin claims of so called science are not knowledge, that are deep fantasy and fake news.

That's the best you can come up with? You're not even trying.

dad writes:

quote:
Well, like I said, I'm just happy I don't have to share any of my viewing time with you. I enjoy exchanging observations with other scientists, but you would not.
looking at little light is not a crime.

Neither is trying to discover how the Universe works. We're not doing it for you, we are doing it for us.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1376 by dad, posted 06-30-2020 1:12 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1379 by dad, posted 06-30-2020 11:48 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1379 of 1436 (878449)
06-30-2020 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1378 by Tanypteryx
06-30-2020 2:40 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
quote:
Nope, just saying that I would report what I observe.
No problem, long as you don't report that the star evolved from nothing, and exists in space and time as we do here in this solar system in an identical way.

quote:
Now see, you just keep saying stupid shit, no wonder no one will let you near science.
Some people call what they don't understand syupid.

quote:
I didn't say anything about the distance, I am just reporting what I see, a red star. Are you calling me a liar?
It isn't about you. When we read, for example, about a cluster or galaxy, or black hole or whatever in far space, they usually tell us the distance and often the mass and sizes as well. Now if all you do is look out in your telescope and report to someone who cares, that a star is red, well, not sure there is a harm or foul there.

quote:
And I am happy to say that I am not pretending to know much at all here.

Great, so you are on the right track. I can affirm that is true.

quote:
Neither is trying to discover how the Universe works. We're not doing it for you, we are doing it for us.

Science preaches the beliefs to kids actually, as well as to everyone else it can. Using a small package of beliefs to interpret evidence is not trying to learn how anything works. Science methodically molests all evidence with it's little set of beliefs and paints, welds, and splatters, and dunks the evidences in them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1378 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-30-2020 2:40 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1380 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-01-2020 4:27 PM dad has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2379
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 1380 of 1436 (878567)
07-01-2020 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1379 by dad
06-30-2020 11:48 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
It's weird, as I read through your gibberish, I kept thinking that you are the 2nd wacko to spout this "it's not the same nature" bullshit, but then I realized it was just the same guy with the same bizarre argument.

dad writes:

quote:
Nope, just saying that I would report what I observe.
No problem, long as you don't report that the star evolved from nothing, and exists in space and time as we do here in this solar system in an identical way.

Oh that's a relief! I was so worried I wouldn't meet your high standard.

I know you didn't get my point. The point is that no one conducting science is ever saying the ridiculous gibberish you say that you don't want us to say.

You don't have even the most remote understanding of the observations that scientist report.

dad writes:

quote:
And I am happy to say that I am not pretending to know much at all here.

Great, so you are on the right track. I can affirm that is true.

Case in point.

dad writes:

quote:
Neither is trying to discover how the Universe works. We're not doing it for you, we are doing it for us.

Science preaches the beliefs to kids actually, as well as to everyone else it can. Using a small package of beliefs to interpret evidence is not trying to learn how anything works. Science methodically molests all evidence with it's little set of beliefs and paints, welds, and splatters, and dunks the evidences in them.

I know you religious types like to tell lies, especially to your kids, but my kids see right through your bullshit.

You seem content to live in a box of a universe, so carry on, but you will have no influence over how I conduct or report science or how I evaluate scientific results reported by others. Your lips are moving but it's just noise.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1379 by dad, posted 06-30-2020 11:48 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1381 by dad, posted 07-02-2020 1:41 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
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