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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 425 of 794 (878611)
07-02-2020 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Phat
07-02-2020 10:17 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Here's the kicker. You would accept him the way he is. Not the way that Gods perfect and holy standard actually is.
God's "perfect and holy standard" is that He welcomes the prodigal son home. You're the one who's disagreeing with God.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 10:17 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 429 of 794 (878646)
07-02-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by Phat
07-02-2020 12:07 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Besides...the prodigal son is human. We are talking fallen angels here.
You were the one who claimed God treated the angels like sons.
The issue here is not about human behaviour or angel behaviour. It's about God's behaviour. Would God treat angels worse than humans?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 12:07 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 433 of 794 (882372)
09-19-2020 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:21 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
God did not directly create evil. He created the possibility of evil.
That's a lie.
quote:
Isaiah 45:I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:36 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 436 of 794 (882375)
09-19-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
You dont think I knew that scripture?
I knew you were going to ignore it.
Phat writes:
God created Satan indirectly.
Satan has nothing to do with evil.
Phat writes:
Im just apologetically explaining why.
You didn't explain anything. You told a lie. EXPLAIN how Isaiah got it so wrong.
Phat writes:
It would make no sense to directly create evil.
It would make no sense in YOUR theology because your theology makes no sense.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 445 of 794 (882401)
09-21-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by Phat
09-20-2020 1:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Indeed I've seen the pattern for over ten years. You ask a question, I give a response,you then go and ridicule my response.
The pattern is that EVERYBODY ridicules your ridiculous responses. Then you ignore their responses and continue repeating the same old PRATTS.
Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 1:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by jar, posted 09-21-2020 2:30 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 447 by FLRW, posted 09-21-2020 3:35 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:25 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 453 of 794 (882431)
09-23-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Phat
09-23-2020 2:25 AM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
Phat writes:
The point is that none of you have refuted much of anything.
Nonsense. Just the other day I showed you that your apologist was lying through his teeth. I quoted the Bible and I quoted where he directly contradicted it. And no response from you.
Phat writes:
All you have done is set the ground rules that I must present verifiable evidence.
See above. You're ignoring the evidence.
Phat writes:
Science will never prove that God exists.
That isn't the issue here.
Phat writes:
Just because you were dumb enough to drop your belief does not mean that you can insist that I follow the same path of "logic" that duped you into dropping yours.
Logic is logic. You don't get to make up your own. I have SHOWED you the logic - see above - and you ignore it.
Phat writes:
there are some who I consider legit that have seen and done stuff that you would consider impossible barring evidence.
As I keep telling you, I have seen stuff too that I can't explain. Not being able to explain something is not an excuse for making up a bullshit explanation. And it is certainly no excuse for clinging to the bullshit in spite of being shown that it's bullshit.
Why can't you just admit that you don't know?
Phat writes:
The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine.
I DON'T shut off the miraculous from consideration. I just don't jump to the conclusion of miraculous.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:25 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 470 of 794 (887366)
08-01-2021 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by candle2
08-01-2021 10:40 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
candle2 writes:
The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but not
eternal punishing. There is a huge different.
Not to the punishee.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 10:40 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 10:49 AM ringo has replied
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 08-02-2021 9:41 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 486 of 794 (887389)
08-01-2021 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by candle2
08-01-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
candle2 writes:
Did you mean punisher?
I meant what I said. The one being punished doesn't care if there's a difference between punishing and punishment.
Only apologists trying to make excuses for the punisher would care if there's a difference.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 10:49 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:30 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 493 of 794 (887401)
08-02-2021 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
08-02-2021 9:41 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
Phat writes:
The only reason the punishee cares is that he questions the authority of the source of the punishment.
Did the Jews need to question Hitler's authority? Isn't it pretty damn obvious that nobody has the authority to exterminate other people?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 08-02-2021 9:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 495 of 794 (887405)
08-02-2021 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by candle2
08-02-2021 9:30 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
candle2 writes:
I'm not making excuses for God.
You still haven't told us what you think the difference is between punishing and punishment.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed attribution.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:30 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 503 of 794 (887691)
08-20-2021 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Phat
08-20-2021 10:42 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
Stop and think.
You broke my irony meter.
Phat writes:
Is GOD evil IF He allowed for the possibility of evil?
God didn't just "allow for the possibility" of evil. He didn't just "allow for the possibility" that somebody would come along and do evil. God created Lucifer.
He didn't just "allow for the possibility" that somebody would dig a tiger trap on his front lawn and that some little kid would fall in when trying to retrieve his soccer ball. God dug the frigging tiger trap.
So the answer to your question is, "Yes."
Yes, God is evil because He creating "the possibility of evil" is exactly the same as creating the evil directly.
Phat writes:
Does it really matter if He foreknew the outcome? If so, WHY?
Of course it matters. It's been explained to you many times. If you point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger, yes, yes, yes it does matter if you know full well whether the gun is loaded or not. YOU stop and think.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Phat, posted 08-20-2021 10:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 511 of 794 (887732)
08-21-2021 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by Phat
08-20-2021 3:21 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:
I am simply asking you to consider a hypothetical. Which is:
1) GOD is the Creator of all seen and unseen. He(She,It) is unlike any God described throughout human literature by people thus far.
All I am doing is ascribing to Him/Her/It some basic characteristics so as to form my hypothetical.
It doesn't matter how "hypothetical" you make it. Your scenario can not be true if it's self-contradictory. And it is. You can't have an omniscient god who "allows the possibility of evil" but is not responsible for evil. It's having your cake and eating it too. Can't happen.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by Phat, posted 08-20-2021 3:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by Phat, posted 08-22-2021 4:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 524 of 794 (887854)
08-23-2021 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Phat
08-22-2021 4:00 PM


Re: Gods responsibility for everything and the judgement of such
Phat writes:
But in the apologetic hypothetical that I have described (and which would likely be accepted by many evangelicals) it *did* happen.
Then it isn't a "hypothetical". It's a fantasy.
Phat writes:
If you allowed your kid to leave home and build his own nest and if he somehow chose to become an ax murderer and if you magically could know the future and know that he would do it, would it then be your responsibility to prevent it?
Yes. Obviously. How can you not understand that? If you know something bad is going to happen and you do nothing to prevent it, you are evil. Period.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Phat, posted 08-22-2021 4:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by Phat, posted 08-25-2021 2:27 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 544 of 794 (887910)
08-25-2021 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Phat
08-25-2021 2:27 AM


Re: Gods responsibility for everything and the judgement of such
Phat writes:
So are you suggesting that God was responsible for Lucifer's decision to become autonomous?
Of course. God is responsible for Lucifer.
Phat writes:
If so, how else could future civilizations be given a choice if there was only one door through which to go?
Why is it important for them to be "given a choice"? As far as I can see, the "choice" is just your cop-out that absolves God of any responsibility.
Phat writes:
And the only reason for us discussing these hypotheticals between religious and nonreligious thinking is that there are many many believers who will live in this world along with our children and the thinking processes and beliefs will continually clash.
You continue to make the same mistake: It isn't believers versus unbelievers. You have a lot more problems with other believers than unbelievers have with you.
Phat writes:
Ultimately whether or not God and Jesus are reality or myth, the effect of such beliefs will impact the future.
The Simpsons will also impact the future.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Phat, posted 08-25-2021 2:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Phat, posted 08-25-2021 9:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 545 of 794 (887912)
08-25-2021 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Phat
08-25-2021 3:12 AM


Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes:
After all, If Jesus had been running the place, would He let everyone join or only the Southern Baptists!
And if you were running the place, you wouldn't let Jesus join.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Phat, posted 08-25-2021 3:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Phat, posted 08-25-2021 3:22 PM ringo has replied

  
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