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Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
God's "perfect and holy standard" is that He welcomes the prodigal son home. You're the one who's disagreeing with God. Here's the kicker. You would accept him the way he is. Not the way that Gods perfect and holy standard actually is."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You were the one who claimed God treated the angels like sons. Besides...the prodigal son is human. We are talking fallen angels here. The issue here is not about human behaviour or angel behaviour. It's about God's behaviour. Would God treat angels worse than humans?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a lie.
God did not directly create evil. He created the possibility of evil.quote: "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I knew you were going to ignore it.
You dont think I knew that scripture? Phat writes:
Satan has nothing to do with evil.
God created Satan indirectly. Phat writes:
You didn't explain anything. You told a lie. EXPLAIN how Isaiah got it so wrong.
Im just apologetically explaining why. Phat writes:
It would make no sense in YOUR theology because your theology makes no sense. It would make no sense to directly create evil."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The pattern is that EVERYBODY ridicules your ridiculous responses. Then you ignore their responses and continue repeating the same old PRATTS. Indeed I've seen the pattern for over ten years. You ask a question, I give a response,you then go and ridicule my response. Edited by ringo, : No reason given."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nonsense. Just the other day I showed you that your apologist was lying through his teeth. I quoted the Bible and I quoted where he directly contradicted it. And no response from you.
The point is that none of you have refuted much of anything. Phat writes:
See above. You're ignoring the evidence.
All you have done is set the ground rules that I must present verifiable evidence. Phat writes:
That isn't the issue here.
Science will never prove that God exists. Phat writes:
Logic is logic. You don't get to make up your own. I have SHOWED you the logic - see above - and you ignore it.
Just because you were dumb enough to drop your belief does not mean that you can insist that I follow the same path of "logic" that duped you into dropping yours. Phat writes:
As I keep telling you, I have seen stuff too that I can't explain. Not being able to explain something is not an excuse for making up a bullshit explanation. And it is certainly no excuse for clinging to the bullshit in spite of being shown that it's bullshit. there are some who I consider legit that have seen and done stuff that you would consider impossible barring evidence. Why can't you just admit that you don't know?
Phat writes:
I DON'T shut off the miraculous from consideration. I just don't jump to the conclusion of miraculous. The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Not to the punishee. The Bible does teach eternal punishment, but noteternal punishing. There is a huge different. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
I meant what I said. The one being punished doesn't care if there's a difference between punishing and punishment. Did you mean punisher? Only apologists trying to make excuses for the punisher would care if there's a difference."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Did the Jews need to question Hitler's authority? Isn't it pretty damn obvious that nobody has the authority to exterminate other people? The only reason the punishee cares is that he questions the authority of the source of the punishment."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
You still haven't told us what you think the difference is between punishing and punishment. I'm not making excuses for God. Edited by ringo, : Fixed attribution."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You broke my irony meter.
Stop and think. Phat writes:
God didn't just "allow for the possibility" of evil. He didn't just "allow for the possibility" that somebody would come along and do evil. God created Lucifer. Is GOD evil IF He allowed for the possibility of evil? He didn't just "allow for the possibility" that somebody would dig a tiger trap on his front lawn and that some little kid would fall in when trying to retrieve his soccer ball. God dug the frigging tiger trap. So the answer to your question is, "Yes." Yes, God is evil because He creating "the possibility of evil" is exactly the same as creating the evil directly.
Phat writes:
Of course it matters. It's been explained to you many times. If you point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger, yes, yes, yes it does matter if you know full well whether the gun is loaded or not. YOU stop and think. Does it really matter if He foreknew the outcome? If so, WHY?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It doesn't matter how "hypothetical" you make it. Your scenario can not be true if it's self-contradictory. And it is. You can't have an omniscient god who "allows the possibility of evil" but is not responsible for evil. It's having your cake and eating it too. Can't happen. I am simply asking you to consider a hypothetical. Which is:1) GOD is the Creator of all seen and unseen. He(She,It) is unlike any God described throughout human literature by people thus far. All I am doing is ascribing to Him/Her/It some basic characteristics so as to form my hypothetical. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Then it isn't a "hypothetical". It's a fantasy.
But in the apologetic hypothetical that I have described (and which would likely be accepted by many evangelicals) it *did* happen. Phat writes:
Yes. Obviously. How can you not understand that? If you know something bad is going to happen and you do nothing to prevent it, you are evil. Period. If you allowed your kid to leave home and build his own nest and if he somehow chose to become an ax murderer and if you magically could know the future and know that he would do it, would it then be your responsibility to prevent it?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course. God is responsible for Lucifer.
So are you suggesting that God was responsible for Lucifer's decision to become autonomous? Phat writes:
Why is it important for them to be "given a choice"? As far as I can see, the "choice" is just your cop-out that absolves God of any responsibility.
If so, how else could future civilizations be given a choice if there was only one door through which to go? Phat writes:
You continue to make the same mistake: It isn't believers versus unbelievers. You have a lot more problems with other believers than unbelievers have with you.
And the only reason for us discussing these hypotheticals between religious and nonreligious thinking is that there are many many believers who will live in this world along with our children and the thinking processes and beliefs will continually clash. Phat writes:
The Simpsons will also impact the future. Ultimately whether or not God and Jesus are reality or myth, the effect of such beliefs will impact the future."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And if you were running the place, you wouldn't let Jesus join. After all, If Jesus had been running the place, would He let everyone join or only the Southern Baptists!"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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