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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 1756 of 2073 (878764)
07-04-2020 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1755 by Kleinman
07-04-2020 6:34 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
So, where does that leave you?
It leaves you utterly unable to explain the vast plethora of evidence that evolution occurred. It leaves you in direct contradiction of the fossil record, geology and genetic evidence of common descent including (as you are into mathematical modelling) molecular and computational phylogenetics.
If you want to supercede all of that you are going to need something more than dismissing it all as the fish turn into mammals clique.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1755 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 6:34 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1757 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 9:33 AM Straggler has replied
 Message 1760 by dad, posted 07-04-2020 1:46 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1757 of 2073 (878771)
07-04-2020 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1756 by Straggler
07-04-2020 6:58 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
So, where does that leave you?
Straggler writes:
It leaves you utterly unable to explain the vast plethora of evidence that evolution occurred. It leaves you in direct contradiction of the fossil record, geology and genetic evidence of common descent including (as you are into mathematical modelling) molecular and computational phylogenetics.
If you want to supercede all of that you are going to need something more than dismissing it all as the fish turn into mammals clique.
If you feel compelled to explain some plethora with silly mythology to naive children, please don't. It's much more important for naive school children to learn the mathematical and physical facts of life of how evolution works. After all, if you don't think that drug-resistance is getting worse, you have lost contact with reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1756 by Straggler, posted 07-04-2020 6:58 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1775 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2020 10:52 AM Kleinman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1758 of 2073 (878773)
07-04-2020 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1749 by Kleinman
07-03-2020 9:42 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Is that what you think "whatever" means?
"Whatever" means that you have nothing substantive to say. In this specific instance it means that you can't back up your claim about your math having any medical value. If you could, you should have presented your evidence long ago.
Edited by ringo, : Misplaced coulda/woulda/shoulda.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1749 by Kleinman, posted 07-03-2020 9:42 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1759 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 11:42 AM ringo has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1759 of 2073 (878778)
07-04-2020 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1758 by ringo
07-04-2020 9:44 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Is that what you think "whatever" means?
ringo writes:
"Whatever" means that you have nothing substantive to say. In this specific instance it means that you can't back up your claim about your math having any medical value. If you could, you should have presented your evidence long ago.
"Whatever" means your reading list is limited to fossil tea-leaf reading journals and Mad magazine. You and the rest of your fish evolve into mammals clique really need to expand your whatever reading list to include some scientific papers. Those are the papers that explain the physics and mathematics of evolution.
Edited by Kleinman, : Typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1758 by ringo, posted 07-04-2020 9:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1765 by ringo, posted 07-04-2020 8:57 PM Kleinman has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1359 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1760 of 2073 (878786)
07-04-2020 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1756 by Straggler
07-04-2020 6:58 AM


Evolution having occurred does not equal TOE
There is no evidence of TOE. Any evolving in the past could have happened with created kinds. There is no need to assume that some evolving and adapting mean that all life originated by evolving itself.
Nor is there any reason to assume the evolving happened the same way we see things evolve now. (that would just be assuming a same nature in the past). Nor is there any reason to assume modern genetics are the same and work the same (as above). Nor is there any reason to assume the fossil record represents anything but a tiny percentage of the variety of life that lived on earth. (science assumes a same nature in the past where all animals had an equal chance of leaving remains). Nor is there any reason to think that similar animals in the fossil record had to have evolved from each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1756 by Straggler, posted 07-04-2020 6:58 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1761 of 2073 (878791)
07-04-2020 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1750 by dad
07-03-2020 11:36 PM


Re: and it was dinos to birds idiot
dad writes:
In other words, you believe the nature of the past was the same and can't prove it, but think anything else must be made up.
Nope. I said:
Tanypteryx writes:
That's all fiction. You just made it up.
I don't think "anything else must be made up", just all of your BS. It is your fictional delusion.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1750 by dad, posted 07-03-2020 11:36 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1762 by dad, posted 07-04-2020 5:41 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 1774 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 12:41 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1359 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1762 of 2073 (878797)
07-04-2020 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1761 by Tanypteryx
07-04-2020 3:06 PM


Re: and it was dinos to birds idiot
Nope. Your religious and vacuous spam is boring.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1761 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-04-2020 3:06 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1763 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-04-2020 6:10 PM dad has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1763 of 2073 (878798)
07-04-2020 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1762 by dad
07-04-2020 5:41 PM


Re: and it was dinos to birds idiot
dad writes:
Nope. Your religious and vacuous spam is boring.
And your repetitious fantasy fiction BS is less than thrilling.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1762 by dad, posted 07-04-2020 5:41 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1764 by dad, posted 07-04-2020 6:47 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1359 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1764 of 2073 (878801)
07-04-2020 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1763 by Tanypteryx
07-04-2020 6:10 PM


Re: and it was dinos to birds idiot
We have established that we like each other I guess. I don't like your beliefs being taught in schools.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1763 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-04-2020 6:10 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1765 of 2073 (878804)
07-04-2020 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1759 by Kleinman
07-04-2020 11:42 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Those are the papers that explain the physics and mathematics of evolution.
I've given you ample opportunities to present ANY papers that support your position in the REAL world - i.e. with actual medical results. You clearly don't have any.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1759 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 11:42 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1766 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 11:15 PM ringo has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 357 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1766 of 2073 (878807)
07-04-2020 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1765 by ringo
07-04-2020 8:57 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Those are the papers that explain the physics and mathematics of evolution.
Ringo writes:
I've given you ample opportunities to present ANY papers that support your position in the REAL world - i.e. with actual medical results. You clearly don't have any.
whatever. And if you have trouble with the meaning of that word, look it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1765 by ringo, posted 07-04-2020 8:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1769 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 9:26 AM Kleinman has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1262 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1767 of 2073 (878808)
07-05-2020 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1755 by Kleinman
07-04-2020 6:34 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
what's the mathematics of this evolving from photon cell in nature?
Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1755 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 6:34 AM Kleinman has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 1768 of 2073 (878812)
07-05-2020 2:54 AM


Over the past few decades, there have been extensive searches for evidence of variation of fundamental "constants." Among the methods used have been astrophysical observations of the spectra of distant stars, searches for variations of planetary radii and moments of inertia, investigations of orbital evolution, searches for anomalous luminosities of faint stars, studies of abundance ratios of radioactive nuclides, and (for current variations) direct laboratory measurements.
One powerful approach has been to study the "Oklo Phenomenon," a uranium deposit in Gabon that became a natural nuclear reactor about 1.8 billion years ago; the isotopic composition of fission products has permitted a detailed investigation of possible changes in nuclear interactions. Another has been to examine ratios of spectral lines of distant quasars coming from different types of atomic transitions (resonant, fine structure, and hyperfine). The resulting frequencies have different dependences on the electron charge and mass, the speed of light, and Planck's constant, and can be used to compare these parameters to their present values on Earth. Solar eclipses provide another sensitive test of variations of the gravitational constant. If G had varied, the eclipse track would have been different from the one we calculate today, so the mere fact that a total eclipse occurred at a particular location provides a powerful constraint, even if the date is poorly known.
So far, these investigations have found no evidence of variation of fundamental "constants." The current observational limits for most constants are on the order of one part in 10 to the 10 to one part in 10 to the 11 per year. So to the best of our current ability to observe, the fundamental constants really are constant.
Have physical constants changed with time?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1773 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 12:39 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1769 of 2073 (878816)
07-05-2020 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1766 by Kleinman
07-04-2020 11:15 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
whatever. And if you have trouble with the meaning of that word, look it up.
Okay:
quote:
"said as a response indicating a reluctance to discuss something, implying indifference, skepticism, or exasperation."
That's what I said. It indicates you running away.
[shakes head]Can you really be as stupid as you pretend to be?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1766 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 11:15 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1771 by Kleinman, posted 07-05-2020 10:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1770 of 2073 (878817)
07-05-2020 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1767 by Trump won
07-05-2020 12:38 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
a Servant of Christ writes:
what's the mathematics of this evolving from photon cell in nature?
What's a "photon cell"?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1767 by Trump won, posted 07-05-2020 12:38 AM Trump won has not replied

  
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