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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 1771 of 2370 (878845)
07-05-2020 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1766 by dad
07-05-2020 12:59 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Not a scientific basis, sorry.
Au contraire. LTT (Last Thursdayism Theory) is supported by every scientific finding in history*. Name one scientific fact that contradicts it.
After all, like you said,
Unless you can prove it was the same there is no need.
So go ahead, prove that time was the same before Last Thursday. 'Cause you know, you said it.
* - You know, since last Thursday.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1766 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 12:59 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1774 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:21 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1772 of 2370 (878846)
07-05-2020 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1769 by dad
07-05-2020 2:30 PM


Re: the world that then was
dad writes:
Unless you know and can prove that the nature you use in all models of the past was as you claim, I have no reason to assume it was.
Nobody cares what you have reason to assume.
dad writes:
In fact, Scripture and even ancient history to some extent records that it was not the same.
That's a stretch at best. A scripture that refers to talking snakes is not a reliable "record" of reality.
dad writes:
Let's see a close up of tree rings over 5000 deep? Let's look at that pattern for that time.
As I have said more than once, RAZD covers all of that in some detail. If you had any honesty, you would address those points over there.
dad writes:
If you pass that bar, we will then ask the question....
You're losing the plot, daddy-o. You're the one who's trying to overthrow millions of person-hours of work by thousands of people for hundreds of years. Nobody owes you any answers. The answers are there if you have the honesty to look at them. Apparently, you don't.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1769 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 2:30 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1776 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1773 of 2370 (878847)
07-05-2020 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1765 by dad
07-05-2020 12:58 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
dad writes:
It is arrogant of you to pretend science knows when being shown unable to demonstrate it.
You haven't shown any such thing. All you've done is refuse to look at the demonstration. Come back when you've refuted RAZD.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1765 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 12:58 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1775 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:22 PM ringo has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1774 of 2370 (878849)
07-05-2020 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1771 by Capt Stormfield
07-05-2020 7:28 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
It's not up to me to prove your beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1771 by Capt Stormfield, posted 07-05-2020 7:28 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1778 by Capt Stormfield, posted 07-05-2020 8:49 PM dad has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1775 of 2370 (878850)
07-05-2020 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1773 by ringo
07-05-2020 7:36 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
You have comprehension issues if you think Razd's belief based arguments demonstrated anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1773 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 7:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1783 by ringo, posted 07-06-2020 9:36 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1776 of 2370 (878851)
07-05-2020 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1772 by ringo
07-05-2020 7:33 PM


Re: the world that then was
No one thinks Scripture is reliable to those who have rejected God.
Razd did not cover how trees grew in the past. By the way I don't see him around..?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1772 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 7:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1782 by ringo, posted 07-06-2020 9:29 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1777 of 2370 (878852)
07-05-2020 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1770 by AZPaul3
07-05-2020 3:46 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Because reality involves more than imagination and belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1770 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2020 3:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1779 by Capt Stormfield, posted 07-05-2020 8:54 PM dad has not replied
 Message 1780 by AZPaul3, posted 07-06-2020 4:11 AM dad has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 1778 of 2370 (878853)
07-05-2020 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1774 by dad
07-05-2020 8:21 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
It's not up to me to prove your beliefs.
Of course not. It's up to you to prove them wrong. Like you said:
Scripture and even ancient history to some extent records that it was not the same...When you claim otherwise I naturally demand real evidence.
You see, we are in agreement. Time and natural laws were not the same! The difference is that Last Thursdayism doesn't require that science be wrong. Things were just created with that appearance. It's far more consilient with the evidence than your claims. Again, as you say:
When you claim otherwise I naturally demand real evidence...
...that my claims are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1774 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:21 PM dad has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 1779 of 2370 (878854)
07-05-2020 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1777 by dad
07-05-2020 8:25 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Because reality involves more than imagination and belief.
And they said irony was dead.
Self awareness, thy name is definitely not "Christian".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:25 PM dad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1781 by Phat, posted 07-06-2020 8:28 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1780 of 2370 (878855)
07-06-2020 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1777 by dad
07-05-2020 8:25 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
dad
In the case of the evolution of life, the main belief is in a same nature in the past.
Why do you say this is a belief and not a reality?
Because reality involves more than imagination and belief.
If the reality of nature was not the same in the past, when and how was it different?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:25 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1785 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 1:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1781 of 2370 (878856)
07-06-2020 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1779 by Capt Stormfield
07-05-2020 8:54 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Wait a minute.... *rubs sleep from eyes*....
Now let me reread this conversation and see if I have it straight!
(starting at Message 1764
dad, addressing ringo writes:
We believe what we choose.
OK, so first off, who is *we*? All of us?
*takes a sip of coffee, continuing to rub sleep from eyes*
dad writes:
Since science doesn't know either was no one needs to or can show how some unknown nature in the past changed. All that is needed is to realize science only believes and does not know.
I'm not understanding. Science in this context means the collective critical thought process and data analysis of the scientiofic community-at-large correct? And I'm assuming that you dont consider yourself part of this community...or am I wrong?
If not, which of the following most closely mirrors your position?
  • I consider myself an independent thinker.
  • I consider myself part of an "alternative" scientific community and am challenging the consensus of the traditional scientific community made up of the people who study tree rings, among other things.
  • I consider only what I wish to consider. We call it the Humpty Dumpty syndrome.
    quote:
    I don't know what you mean by 'glory,'" Alice said.
    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don'ttill I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
    "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to meanneither more nor less."
    "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
    "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be masterthat's all.
    Lewis Carroll

    So we have a guy at our Forum...named dad....who is attempting to school us as if we are his children.
    *pours out coffee and goes back to sleep*

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
    The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1779 by Capt Stormfield, posted 07-05-2020 8:54 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1786 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 1:43 PM Phat has not replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 1782 of 2370 (878865)
    07-06-2020 9:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 1776 by dad
    07-05-2020 8:24 PM


    Re: the world that then was
    dad writes:
    Razd did not cover how trees grew in the past.
    How do you know that? Have you read everythong he wrote?
    dad writes:
    By the way I don't see him around..?
    He died just recently.
    dad writes:
    No one thinks Scripture is reliable to those who have rejected God.
    It isn't about rejecting God. Plenty of believers accept the reality that the scriptures are unreliable. We have a whole raft of topics about the Bible if you want to learn something.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1776 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:24 PM dad has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1787 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 1:45 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 1783 of 2370 (878868)
    07-06-2020 9:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 1775 by dad
    07-05-2020 8:22 PM


    Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
    dad writes:
    You have comprehension issues if you think Razd's belief based arguments demonstrated anything.
    Again I have to ask if you have read everything that RAZD wrote. If you haven't, you have honesty issues. If you have, you're the one with comprehension issues. If there's anything that RAZD wrote that you don't understand, feel free to ask questions in his topics.

    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1775 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 8:22 PM dad has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1788 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 1:47 PM ringo has replied

      
    JonF
    Member (Idle past 168 days)
    Posts: 6174
    Joined: 06-23-2003


    Message 1784 of 2370 (878869)
    07-06-2020 10:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 1762 by dad
    07-05-2020 12:50 PM


    Re: We don't ASSUME the past was the same
    you don't seem to accept proofs outside of science.
    I'll gladly look at "proofs outside of science" . You haven't offered any.
    Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1762 by dad, posted 07-05-2020 12:50 PM dad has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1789 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 1:48 PM JonF has replied

      
    dad
    Member (Idle past 1337 days)
    Posts: 337
    Joined: 05-29-2020


    Message 1785 of 2370 (878876)
    07-06-2020 1:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 1780 by AZPaul3
    07-06-2020 4:11 AM


    Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
    How long do we know it was the same on earth? Certainly the world described in early Sumer seemed different, since they have people living many centuries. They also had spirits living with us in Egyptian records. That would not be natural now.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1780 by AZPaul3, posted 07-06-2020 4:11 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 1793 by AZPaul3, posted 07-06-2020 7:53 PM dad has replied

      
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