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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1771 of 2073 (878821)
07-05-2020 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1769 by ringo
07-05-2020 9:26 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
whatever. And if you have trouble with the meaning of that word, look it up.
ringo writes:
Okay:
"said as a response indicating a reluctance to discuss something, implying indifference, skepticism, or exasperation."
ringo writes:
That's what I said. It indicates you running away.
[shakes head]Can you really be as stupid as you pretend to be?
That's one of the meanings, words can be ambiguous. You should try mathematics but your problem is that you aren't pretending.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1769 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 9:26 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1772 by ringo, posted 07-05-2020 12:33 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1772 of 2073 (878825)
07-05-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1771 by Kleinman
07-05-2020 10:37 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
That's one of the meanings, words can be ambiguous.
You told me to look it up and I did. You used the word by itself, with no context, so that's the meaning that fits.
If you're not running away, you could try addressing the actual issues. For example:
1. Why can't you provide any evidence that your ideas produce MEDICAL results?
2. Why are you trying to promote your ideas HERE, where there is no chance of them having any medical results?
Kleinman writes:
You should try mathematics....
By the same token, you should stop trying English. You're not fooling anybody.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1771 by Kleinman, posted 07-05-2020 10:37 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1358 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1773 of 2073 (878827)
07-05-2020 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1768 by Tangle
07-05-2020 2:54 AM


Investigations of orbital evolution? Tell us an example, and show how this is used to show space and time were always the same?
Even though laws in the distant universe are not something that affects what earth laws were like in the past, do show how 'orbital evolution' shows us what you claim? Specific example...
As for Oklo, can you prove that all those sites got dunked miles under and resurfaced as needed?
"He explained that, after the fission process had finished, a geological shift caused the Oklo reactor to sink a few miles below the surface - where it was preserved from erosion. A few million years ago, another shift brought the uranium deposits back to the surface."
Natural Nuclear Reaction Powered Ancient Geyser | Live Science
There are shifts all over the world. Show us why this small area got dunked, or you might as well claim New York got dunked and resurfaced also. (hint: you just need it to have happened for your fable chain to have happened)
Edited by dad, : No reason given.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1768 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2020 2:54 AM Tangle has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1358 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1774 of 2073 (878828)
07-05-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1761 by Tanypteryx
07-04-2020 3:06 PM


Re: and it was dinos to birds idiot
No problem, if you can't refine 'nope' into a clear point, we get it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1761 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-04-2020 3:06 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 1775 of 2073 (878870)
07-06-2020 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1757 by Kleinman
07-04-2020 9:33 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
But your blinkered focus on drug resistance stops you from looking at how evolution has actually occurred. Species exist. That is a fact. According to your theory there is no common descent so each species must have originated independently.
How does that work?
Do you accept geology? And astronomy? Do you accept that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?
Your relentless focus on the minutiae of drug resistance doesn’t provide any context or answers to the big scientific questions. It’s a special case extrapolation gone mad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1757 by Kleinman, posted 07-04-2020 9:33 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1776 by Kleinman, posted 07-06-2020 2:58 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1776 of 2073 (878884)
07-06-2020 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1775 by Straggler
07-06-2020 10:52 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Straggler writes:
But your blinkered focus on drug resistance stops you from looking at how evolution has actually occurred. Species exist. That is a fact. According to your theory there is no common descent so each species must have originated independently.
You don't see it because you only have one eye. The Kishony experiment based on antimicrobial drug-resistance is not the only well-measured example of DNA evolution. You also have the well-measured Lenski experiment that uses starvation as the selection pressure and DNA evolution works the same way in that experiment. The empirical evidence that eukaryotic DNA evolution also works the same way is now becoming more available. But if you have a rational argument that DNA evolution works differently for different selection conditions, you should make that argument now. You won't. With respect to the notion of common descent, some simple replicator in the primordial soup + time = a Straggler, forget it. You can't even explain all the genetic differences between humans and chimps in a million generations (10,000,000 years and 10 years/generation). The accounting rules for DNA evolution don't even close to balancing the books on that one.
Straggler writes:
How does that work?
I'm showing you how DNA evolution works and the way that biologists and population geneticists use this math to do their DNA phylogenetics is totally wrong. The way they use it, you could find some homologous piece of DNA from a banana and show that you are closely related.
Straggler writes:
Do you accept geology? And astronomy? Do you accept that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old?
I took a college course in geology many years ago and never studied astronomy but if their work is anything like what biologists have done with the subject of evolution, I wouldn't take anything they say at face value.
Straggler writes:
Your relentless focus on the minutiae of drug resistance doesn’t provide any context or answers to the big scientific questions. It’s a special case extrapolation gone mad.
I'm old enough to remember that the evolution of drug-resistance was a major supporting argument for the theory of evolution. All I have done is run the numbers and it is not me that has done the extrapolation gone mad. All I have done is put the variables mutation rate and the number of replications in the correct mathematical context. When you do, it becomes readily apparent why it takes a billion replications for each evolutionary transition step. And it doesn't matter what the selection pressure is. Check out the Lenski experiment which uses starvation as the selection pressure and the same math applies. You should check it out yourself and try to find any empirical example which contradicts this math. You won't find one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1775 by Straggler, posted 07-06-2020 10:52 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1777 of 2073 (878890)
07-06-2020 6:10 PM


public schools are harmful, draconian places where creative and critical thought is actively discouraged.
a more accurate term for public school is holding container for humanity's future.
evolution nor intelligent design should be taught in these ghettos of thought, controlled by rapacious administrators and teachers unions that suck every last dime from their populace.
public school is not a place of learning. evolution and intelligent design do not receive the vital nuance they deserve in their instruction.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1778 by Kleinman, posted 07-06-2020 7:56 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 1779 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 10:22 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 1783 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2020 2:25 AM Trump won has replied

  
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 356 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 1778 of 2073 (878894)
07-06-2020 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1777 by Trump won
07-06-2020 6:10 PM


a servant of Christ writes:
public schools are harmful, draconian places where creative and critical thought is actively discouraged.
a more accurate term for public school is holding container for humanity's future.
evolution nor intelligent design should be taught in these ghettos of thought, controlled by rapacious administrators and teachers unions that suck every last dime from their populace.
public school is not a place of learning. evolution and intelligent design do not receive the vital nuance they deserve in their instruction.
Public schools haven't always been like this and be careful, churches can be like this as well.

This message is a reply to:
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dad
Member (Idle past 1358 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1779 of 2073 (878902)
07-06-2020 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1777 by Trump won
07-06-2020 6:10 PM


The vital nuance they deserve in my opinion is a flush.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by Trump won, posted 07-06-2020 6:10 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1780 by Trump won, posted 07-07-2020 1:54 AM dad has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1780 of 2073 (878906)
07-07-2020 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1779 by dad
07-06-2020 10:22 PM


what's wrong with intelligent design?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1779 by dad, posted 07-06-2020 10:22 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1781 by PaulK, posted 07-07-2020 2:02 AM Trump won has replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1781 of 2073 (878907)
07-07-2020 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1780 by Trump won
07-07-2020 1:54 AM


His objection is probably that Intelligent Design isn’t explicitly Young Earth.
However, there are plenty of reasons why Intelligent Design does not belong in schools. Even if it were a fringe position in science it wouldn’t belong there.
But it’s worse than that. Intelligent Design covers everything from Young Earth Creationism to Behe’s idea that God occasionally makes genetic adjustments (and he hopes to find an example one day). Which do you teach in science classes? And why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1780 by Trump won, posted 07-07-2020 1:54 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1782 by Trump won, posted 07-07-2020 2:20 AM PaulK has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1782 of 2073 (878910)
07-07-2020 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1781 by PaulK
07-07-2020 2:02 AM


macroevolution is a fairy tale. there is zero evidence that the eye evolved after selective competition in nature, as evolutionists claim.
it's a story that evolutionists tell themselves over and over. that slight mutations led to competitive benefit and an eye "arms race" took place. there is no evidence that this is actually possible.
the human eye is irreducibly complex regardless of the stories evolutionists like to tell themselves.
u can put evolution in a class on pagan myths.
if you're going to put a myth in a science class like the ToE, you may as well save place to bookend it with intelligent design.
the ToE is a narrative, like any other, and has no basis in reality.
we are objectively created by God.
we continue to neglect our special brand of consciousness. we are different than other species. we are completely self aware and capable of philosophical limitlessness of quandary.
the postmodern way is to ignore the reality that the human is fundamentally intellectually different from other species.
human eyes can appear as nebulas in microcosm, and yet you parade your truth, but in your heart, you know Christ is Lord. He's the only god that died for you and your pitiful existence, and the only god who ever could.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1781 by PaulK, posted 07-07-2020 2:02 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 1783 of 2073 (878911)
07-07-2020 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1777 by Trump won
07-06-2020 6:10 PM


SoC writes:
evolution nor intelligent design should be taught in these ghettos of thought [] the ToE is a narrative, like any other, and has no basis in reality
So you disagree with your leader?
Yesterday, Pope Francis, the head of the Roman Catholic Church, said that Darwinian evolution is real, and so is the Big Bang, according to the Telegraph. Elsewhere in his speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope said:
When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so, Francis said.
The Pope Would Like You to Accept Evolution and the Big Bang | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by Trump won, posted 07-06-2020 6:10 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1784 of 2073 (878912)
07-07-2020 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1782 by Trump won
07-07-2020 2:20 AM


quote:
macroevolution is a fairy tale
You say that, but there is strong evidence that says that it happened - and there are Young Earth Creationists who argue that it did happen - and even quicker than scientists would say.
quote:
there is zero evidence that the eye evolved after selective competition in nature, as evolutionists claim.
There may be little direct evidence of how it happened, but that isn’t a block. When we have a known mechanism and the evidence is consistent with it we don’t suddenly jump off and assume that something else did it.
quote:
the human eye is irreducibly complex regardless of the stories evolutionists like to tell themselves.
Even if that were true (and it isn’t) irreducible complexity is not a bar to evolution.
quote:
we are objectively created by God.
In your opinion. Which is subjective,
quote:
we continue to neglect our special brand of consciousness. we are different than other species. we are completely self aware and capable of philosophical limitlessness of quandary.
Of course it is impossible to read the minds of other species, yet we do have evidence of self-awareness. Also, we cannot know the mental capacities of the extinct hominids.
quote:
human eyes can appear as nebulas in microcosm, and yet you parade your truth, but in your heart, you know Christ is Lord. He's the only god that died for you and your pitiful existence, and the only god who ever could.
If that were true - and it isn’t- it would be an even stronger reason for rejecting Creationism.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dad
Member (Idle past 1358 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


(1)
Message 1785 of 2073 (878913)
07-07-2020 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1780 by Trump won
07-07-2020 1:54 AM


No, evolution needs the flush. God did design intelligently of course.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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